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As I mentioned before on HN [0], ITIF is a Tech pressure/lobbying organization that has been supported by Gates and Schmidt Futures [1][2] (funding Terrapower a

As I mentioned before on HN [0], ITIF is a Tech pressure/lobbying organization that has been supported by Gates and Schmidt Futures [1][2] (funding Terrapower and lots of next-gen energy startups now). [0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34603490#34604022 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34603490#34604022 [1] - https://itif.org/publications/2016/12/12/itif-welcomes-announcement-breakthrough-energy-ventures-urges-government/ https://itif.org/publications/2016/12/12/itif-welcomes-annou... [2] - https://itif.org/our-supporters/ https://itif.org/our-supporters/

defrost 2y ago
Fair call and worth mentioning, cheers. I made a deliberate point to highlight the report source but didn't delve into the backend support. All report producers have some spin direction and agenda, the amount of each varies and some think tanks are more notorious than others for bias (Heartland springs to mind). That aside, Australia has a small population and at this point in time a rudderless plan for a carbon future; their conservative wing are all in on a nuclear plan that makes little economic sense and pretty much just green lights immediate coal plant expansion and kicking emissions targets down the road, the opposing left and governing wing have been captured by promises of carbon capture from LPG gas producers that are technically more sky than pie. The technical report on Australian power futures: https://www.csiro.au/en/research/technology-space/energy/GenCost https://www.csiro.au/en/research/technology-space/energy/Gen... Some commentary on the nuclear 'plan': https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https%3A%2F%2Fwww.crikey.com.au%2F2024%2F06%2F17%2Fpeter-dutton-energy-policy-nuclear-coal-renewables%2F https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https%... ( webcache link to subscriber article ) and .. ffs I've misplaced an article shredding the opposition plan. Power for the future is an interesting space ATM. I've appreciated your comments here BTW :-)
- alephnerd 2y ago
  > Australia has a small population and at this point in time a rudderless plan for a carbon future I'd disagree. Australia is going all-in on Green Hydrogen for industrial usecases, and is working closely with Japan and India on this front [0][1] and has basically made production tax free [2]. Ik HNers are very negative in their views about Hydrogen Energy, but the slowness in the industry was due to the lack of funding and capital in the space, along with a relative lack of interest about the technology in the US. Now that the UAE [3], KSA [4], Australia [0], Japan [5], South Korea [6], USA [7], and India [8] have all begun investing billions in coordination with each other in these projects, we'll see it productionize in a decade - especially because all these countries have FTAs with each other and are working together on Hydrogen capacity and investments (almost $100B at this point just among those 7). [0] - https://www.dcceew.gov.au/energy/hydrogen https://www.dcceew.gov.au/energy/hydrogen [1] - https://www.dcceew.gov.au/climate-change/international-climate-action/international-partnerships/india-australia-green-hydrogen-taskforce https://www.dcceew.gov.au/climate-change/international-clima... [2] - https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insights/latest-news/energy-transition/051524-australias-a2kg-production-tax-incentive-for-renewable-hydrogen-to-help-energy-transition https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insight... [3] - https://www.investmentmonitor.ai/news/abu-dhabi-government-and-hycap-to-build-green-hydrogen-complex/?cf-view https://www.investmentmonitor.ai/news/abu-dhabi-government-a... [4] - https://saudiarabien.ahk.de/en/market-information/energy-sector-in-saudi-arabia-bahrain/hydrogen-central-role-saudi-arabia https://saudiarabien.ahk.de/en/market-information/energy-sec... [5] - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/japan-invest-107-bln-hydrogen-supply-over-15-years-2023-06-06/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/japan-invest-107-bln... [6] - https://hk.boell.org/en/2023/04/26/wag-dog-hydrogen-scheme-south-korea https://hk.boell.org/en/2023/04/26/wag-dog-hydrogen-scheme-s... [7] - https://apnews.com/article/hydrogen-hubs-energy-biden-climate-pennsylvania-west-virginia-d609a455a6dd018fca5af785f245c6fd https://apnews.com/article/hydrogen-hubs-energy-biden-climat... [8] - https://www.nbr.org/publication/the-evolving-story-of-hydrogen-in-india-and-opportunities-for-global-cooperation/ https://www.nbr.org/publication/the-evolving-story-of-hydrog...
  - defrost 2y ago
    I'd argue that various industry captains in Australia are going all in on hydrogen (eg: Andrew Forrest most notably and a couple of long haul fixed route trucking contractors) (see, eg: https://reneweconomy.com.au/fortescue-green-hydrogen-goal-needs-450gw-of-wind-and-solar-by-2030/ https://reneweconomy.com.au/fortescue-green-hydrogen-goal-ne... ) and that the Liberal|National Coalition and Australian Labor Party (the two major political wings in Australian politics) are rudderless in the sense of appearing to have plans but neither are leading strongly. I like Hydrogen|Ammonia, and the biggest drive there is from the major billion tonne per annum mining producers that are converting massive cattle stations to solar farms for 24|7 energy to use in adjacent mining operations .. but these are not Australian Government projects ... although the .gov.au spin is happy to ride along and appear to be driving.
    - alephnerd 2y ago
      > these are not Australian Government projects Imo, there's no reason for them to be. A lot of the R&D in the Hydrogen space was done by private companies like Eneos, Idemitsu Kosan, Hokkaido Electric, SK Group, Saudi Aramco, BP, GE, Siemens, Reliance, etc. Just by supporting private sector champions through tax breaks, R&D credits, seed funding, and PLI you are building an ecosystem. Even China does the same thing in the EV and Solar space, by supporting private sector companies like BYD, DAQI, LONGi, Jinko, Trina, and Canadian Solar.
      - defrost 2y ago
        Sure. As said before, Australia (as in the Australian Federal Goverment) is rudderless on effective policy .. fortuneatly we have some people working in effective directions, and a number of others doing their best to upset such plans and throw anchors arrears and logs of wood in front.
        alephnerd 2y ago
        Agree to disagree I guess.

defrost 2y ago

Fair call and worth mentioning, cheers. I made a deliberate point to highlight the report source but didn't delve into the backend support. All report producers have some spin direction and agenda, the amount of each varies and some think tanks are more notorious than others for bias (Heartland springs to mind). That aside, Australia has a small population and at this point in time a rudderless plan for a carbon future; their conservative wing are all in on a nuclear plan that makes little economic sense and pretty much just green lights immediate coal plant expansion and kicking emissions targets down the road, the opposing left and governing wing have been captured by promises of carbon capture from LPG gas producers that are technically more sky than pie. The technical report on Australian power futures: https://www.csiro.au/en/research/technology-space/energy/GenCost https://www.csiro.au/en/research/technology-space/energy/Gen... Some commentary on the nuclear 'plan': https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https%3A%2F%2Fwww.crikey.com.au%2F2024%2F06%2F17%2Fpeter-dutton-energy-policy-nuclear-coal-renewables%2F https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https%... ( webcache link to subscriber article ) and .. ffs I've misplaced an article shredding the opposition plan. Power for the future is an interesting space ATM. I've appreciated your comments here BTW :-)

alephnerd 2y ago
> Australia has a small population and at this point in time a rudderless plan for a carbon future I'd disagree. Australia is going all-in on Green Hydrogen for industrial usecases, and is working closely with Japan and India on this front [0][1] and has basically made production tax free [2]. Ik HNers are very negative in their views about Hydrogen Energy, but the slowness in the industry was due to the lack of funding and capital in the space, along with a relative lack of interest about the technology in the US. Now that the UAE [3], KSA [4], Australia [0], Japan [5], South Korea [6], USA [7], and India [8] have all begun investing billions in coordination with each other in these projects, we'll see it productionize in a decade - especially because all these countries have FTAs with each other and are working together on Hydrogen capacity and investments (almost $100B at this point just among those 7). [0] - https://www.dcceew.gov.au/energy/hydrogen https://www.dcceew.gov.au/energy/hydrogen [1] - https://www.dcceew.gov.au/climate-change/international-climate-action/international-partnerships/india-australia-green-hydrogen-taskforce https://www.dcceew.gov.au/climate-change/international-clima... [2] - https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insights/latest-news/energy-transition/051524-australias-a2kg-production-tax-incentive-for-renewable-hydrogen-to-help-energy-transition https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insight... [3] - https://www.investmentmonitor.ai/news/abu-dhabi-government-and-hycap-to-build-green-hydrogen-complex/?cf-view https://www.investmentmonitor.ai/news/abu-dhabi-government-a... [4] - https://saudiarabien.ahk.de/en/market-information/energy-sector-in-saudi-arabia-bahrain/hydrogen-central-role-saudi-arabia https://saudiarabien.ahk.de/en/market-information/energy-sec... [5] - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/japan-invest-107-bln-hydrogen-supply-over-15-years-2023-06-06/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/japan-invest-107-bln... [6] - https://hk.boell.org/en/2023/04/26/wag-dog-hydrogen-scheme-south-korea https://hk.boell.org/en/2023/04/26/wag-dog-hydrogen-scheme-s... [7] - https://apnews.com/article/hydrogen-hubs-energy-biden-climate-pennsylvania-west-virginia-d609a455a6dd018fca5af785f245c6fd https://apnews.com/article/hydrogen-hubs-energy-biden-climat... [8] - https://www.nbr.org/publication/the-evolving-story-of-hydrogen-in-india-and-opportunities-for-global-cooperation/ https://www.nbr.org/publication/the-evolving-story-of-hydrog...
- defrost 2y ago
  I'd argue that various industry captains in Australia are going all in on hydrogen (eg: Andrew Forrest most notably and a couple of long haul fixed route trucking contractors) (see, eg: https://reneweconomy.com.au/fortescue-green-hydrogen-goal-needs-450gw-of-wind-and-solar-by-2030/ https://reneweconomy.com.au/fortescue-green-hydrogen-goal-ne... ) and that the Liberal|National Coalition and Australian Labor Party (the two major political wings in Australian politics) are rudderless in the sense of appearing to have plans but neither are leading strongly. I like Hydrogen|Ammonia, and the biggest drive there is from the major billion tonne per annum mining producers that are converting massive cattle stations to solar farms for 24|7 energy to use in adjacent mining operations .. but these are not Australian Government projects ... although the .gov.au spin is happy to ride along and appear to be driving.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    > these are not Australian Government projects Imo, there's no reason for them to be. A lot of the R&D in the Hydrogen space was done by private companies like Eneos, Idemitsu Kosan, Hokkaido Electric, SK Group, Saudi Aramco, BP, GE, Siemens, Reliance, etc. Just by supporting private sector champions through tax breaks, R&D credits, seed funding, and PLI you are building an ecosystem. Even China does the same thing in the EV and Solar space, by supporting private sector companies like BYD, DAQI, LONGi, Jinko, Trina, and Canadian Solar.
    - defrost 2y ago
      Sure. As said before, Australia (as in the Australian Federal Goverment) is rudderless on effective policy .. fortuneatly we have some people working in effective directions, and a number of others doing their best to upset such plans and throw anchors arrears and logs of wood in front.
      - alephnerd 2y ago
        Agree to disagree I guess.