5 ms·

Sadly, this solution never works in the real world.

by antiquark 2y ago

wiz21c 2y ago
why ?
- tiborsaas 2y ago
  From the steam post: > First of all, we removed the virtual landlord so a building’s upkeep is now paid equally by all renters In real life you can't just take away people's assets with a simple update. In post-communist countries we've seen that happening and it's not pretty.
solumunus 2y ago
Trust me bro.
INTPenis 2y ago
No but a decent solution would be to regulate landlords. Of course any blue blooded american will cringe at the R-word.
- murat124 2y ago
  Really? Isn't it the republicans who are vehemently against regulation and not the democrats?
  - INTPenis 2y ago
    Don't ask me, I'm just an outsider looking in on a complete garbage fire of a system. Judging by their social issues I'd say all two of their parties are equally ludicrous.
  - WJW 2y ago
    Looking outside in (from the EU), even the democrats are quite a bit further to the right than even some of the parties we label as "radical right" over here. Even Bernie Saunders (the most left-wing democrat I can think of off the top of my head) had standpoints on things like gun control and universal healthcare that would never fly here.
    - bee_rider 2y ago
      What does gun control have to do with left-right politics? For healthcare, he is site says he wants a single payer system with no deductibles, so, entirely government funded… what’s the more left wing option?
      - WJW 2y ago
        What I was getting at with both points: - Gun control in almost any country is WAY stricter than in the US, and people in the EU are absolutely fine with the government interfering heavy-handedly in that subject. There would be riots in the street here if schools would need to have "active shooter policies" for example, we'd rather have a blanket ban on private firearm possession and have the police enforce that. In that sense, even Saunders seems quite fine to have a relatively hands-off gun policy and that lack of government regulation is typically more associated with the right than with the left. - For healthcare policy, I only briefly skimmed his site but I don't think I actually saw a plan to have the government nationalize the hospitals and take them out of private hands? AFAIK in most EU countries most doctors/nurses are government employees with only a small minority working in privately owned clinics.
        dagw 2y ago
        I don't think I actually saw a plan to have the government nationalize the hospitals and take them out of private hands? Nationalizing all the hospitals would put you way to the left in many EU countries. Most right of centre parties (and even some left of centre parties) in the EU are pushing for more private health care, not less.
        bee_rider 2y ago
        It looks to me like there’s some variation in the number of private vs public hospitals and beds (figure 3). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8005513/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8005513/ So at least we could say the idea of having publicly owned hospitals did fly in Norway and the Netherlands, for example. Unless I’ve misunderstood the data. WRT guns, it is true that we have a crazy amount of guns in the US, more than one per person, which is totally absurd. But there’s significant state-level variation, for example I grew up in Massachusetts where we have around 7 guns per 100 people, which seems OK compared to some EU countries. Bernie represents a fairly rural state (and also one with gun manufacturers), so he’s more little-l liberal (in the “anything goes” sense) on guns than a lot of Democrats. Anyway, I’d agree that he’s more left-leaning than most democrats and maybe he’s a little to the right of, at least, some centrist EU political parties. But IMO the fact that one of our most left wing politicians happens to be weak on guns is more of a coincidence that overplays the difference (which certainly isn’t to say there isn’t any difference). You could look at Liz Warren for someone who’s just smidge to his right, but is also more willing to restrict guns. Another interesting departure from Democratic Party principles for Bernie was that he was more of a NAFTA (free trade in North America) skeptic, and is less of a proponent of immigration. In the US these are generally Republican-party aligned positions, so if we want to call the parties our arrows for “left” and “right,” that puts him more to the right. But, he came to those positions through worker protections concerns. And, it is not that uncommon for left wing parties in Europe to have similar concerns, I think? IMO, there are just too many issues to make a one or two dimensional map.
  - relaxing 2y ago
    The “blue” in blue blood does not refer to Democrat, rather to patrician upbringing.
    - INTPenis 2y ago
      Thanks for clarifying, but you shouldn't mark every word I say since I am clearly not American. I learned english by watching the Fresh Prince on TV.
- glimshe 2y ago
  Make being a landlord too tough, rental properties will disappear. When you hear "landlord", you might think of a Duke enjoying a lavish meal while the tenants slave away in the fields to pay rent. Or a huge corporation. But there are a ton of middle and upper middle class people who are land "lords". I was one myself. I rented out my house, after moving to another city for a job, to wait for a market recovery post the 2000s housing bubble. I was a landlord for 3 years. I couldn't wait for it to be over. It was a ton of work and tenants already have a ridiculous amount of power, even in a red state. I turned a small profit that only slightly helped paying rent on my new city. If you think being a landlord is easy money, give it a try someday. I understand we need to ensure fairness for everybody, but the way isn't cartoonishly demonizing all landlords.
  - Spooky23 2y ago
    You were a hobbyist trying to eke out some income to stay solvent. Even in that situation, you’re upset with the proles and their meager power. It starts to get shitty when you enter the zone of the dentist with a half dozen or more properties and gets worse as you go up. The incentives are to leverage the buildings to grow and depreciating the property while maximizing the revenue. Just like rent seeking in technology, it’s not pleasant.
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    I’ve rented from individuals and it is fine. The real pain is the big corporate places that make it a business to do renting. They have the scale to be motivated to nickel and dime you about stupid stuff, and, like, living in a place where corporate policy types make all the rules is hell, but worse, because the demons are stupid as well as evil. We should be really targeted in our regulations, hit places with more than, say, 10 tenants pretty hard. Regulate them out of existence, even. Then you’d have had less competition.
  - INTPenis 2y ago
    Funny how it works everywhere else.
uyzstvqs 2y ago
The fact that there are a not insignificant number of people comparing this game to the real world suggests that basic economic education is severely lacking. There's actually this great book called Basic Economics, for those interested.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > The fact that there are a not insignificant number of people comparing this game to the real world suggests that basic economic education is severely lacking. Landlords aren't needed for a society to work. A lot of Eastern European countries have home-ownership rates way beyond 90% [1] - that allows the economies of these countries to be able to undercut Western European countries on wages despite everyday cost of life (e.g. electricity, food, gas) being similar to Western Europe (or, like in Croatia, often enough even more expensive than that!), as there are almost no landlords extracting value off of society and into the hands of the very few very rich. The only place where landlords actually fill a valid gap are to serve those who have to move to a new place or who are in the country only for short/medium term. It's not surprising that the countries with high homeownership rates are formerly Communist or (like the Nordics) strongly Social Democrat in history. A population is way happier when they do not have to fear eviction every day in life. [1] https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/155734/umfrage/wohneigentumsquoten-in-europa/ https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/155734/umfrag...
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    The reason for this could be a lack of people coming into the country that need a home. If the number of people entering a country is minimal, the demand won't go up, and almost everyone can afford a home. If there are far more people entering then homes get chopped up into apartments and each rented out for the same price the whole house would've been rented for a few years ago. Landlords in this situation are just adjusting the supply to meet the demand, and to be honest doing a better job than, say, the UK government, who just pay taxpayer money to hotels and stick people in them.
    - 2y ago
derelicta 2y ago
Tell this to the Citizens of Vienna and Singapore, where the landlord is the State, or not for profit orgs propped up by the State.
- zertrin 2y ago
  What. No. In Singapore the state-built apartments (HDB flats) are sold not lent to the Singaporeans/permanent residents. The state does not operate as a landlord. Most of the population owns their property here.
  - ramesh31 2y ago
    >Most of the population owns their property here. ...as a direct result of government policy that discourages landlording.
timbit42 2y ago
Housing cooperatives. Anyone who prefers democracy would probably also prefer housing cooperatives and worker cooperatives.

Sadly, this solution never works in the real world.

wiz21c 2y ago

why ?

tiborsaas 2y ago
From the steam post: > First of all, we removed the virtual landlord so a building’s upkeep is now paid equally by all renters In real life you can't just take away people's assets with a simple update. In post-communist countries we've seen that happening and it's not pretty.

solumunus 2y ago

Trust me bro.

INTPenis 2y ago

No but a decent solution would be to regulate landlords. Of course any blue blooded american will cringe at the R-word.

murat124 2y ago
Really? Isn't it the republicans who are vehemently against regulation and not the democrats?
- INTPenis 2y ago
  Don't ask me, I'm just an outsider looking in on a complete garbage fire of a system. Judging by their social issues I'd say all two of their parties are equally ludicrous.
- WJW 2y ago
  Looking outside in (from the EU), even the democrats are quite a bit further to the right than even some of the parties we label as "radical right" over here. Even Bernie Saunders (the most left-wing democrat I can think of off the top of my head) had standpoints on things like gun control and universal healthcare that would never fly here.
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    What does gun control have to do with left-right politics? For healthcare, he is site says he wants a single payer system with no deductibles, so, entirely government funded… what’s the more left wing option?
    - WJW 2y ago
      What I was getting at with both points: - Gun control in almost any country is WAY stricter than in the US, and people in the EU are absolutely fine with the government interfering heavy-handedly in that subject. There would be riots in the street here if schools would need to have "active shooter policies" for example, we'd rather have a blanket ban on private firearm possession and have the police enforce that. In that sense, even Saunders seems quite fine to have a relatively hands-off gun policy and that lack of government regulation is typically more associated with the right than with the left. - For healthcare policy, I only briefly skimmed his site but I don't think I actually saw a plan to have the government nationalize the hospitals and take them out of private hands? AFAIK in most EU countries most doctors/nurses are government employees with only a small minority working in privately owned clinics.
      - dagw 2y ago
        I don't think I actually saw a plan to have the government nationalize the hospitals and take them out of private hands? Nationalizing all the hospitals would put you way to the left in many EU countries. Most right of centre parties (and even some left of centre parties) in the EU are pushing for more private health care, not less.
      - bee_rider 2y ago
        It looks to me like there’s some variation in the number of private vs public hospitals and beds (figure 3). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8005513/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8005513/ So at least we could say the idea of having publicly owned hospitals did fly in Norway and the Netherlands, for example. Unless I’ve misunderstood the data. WRT guns, it is true that we have a crazy amount of guns in the US, more than one per person, which is totally absurd. But there’s significant state-level variation, for example I grew up in Massachusetts where we have around 7 guns per 100 people, which seems OK compared to some EU countries. Bernie represents a fairly rural state (and also one with gun manufacturers), so he’s more little-l liberal (in the “anything goes” sense) on guns than a lot of Democrats. Anyway, I’d agree that he’s more left-leaning than most democrats and maybe he’s a little to the right of, at least, some centrist EU political parties. But IMO the fact that one of our most left wing politicians happens to be weak on guns is more of a coincidence that overplays the difference (which certainly isn’t to say there isn’t any difference). You could look at Liz Warren for someone who’s just smidge to his right, but is also more willing to restrict guns. Another interesting departure from Democratic Party principles for Bernie was that he was more of a NAFTA (free trade in North America) skeptic, and is less of a proponent of immigration. In the US these are generally Republican-party aligned positions, so if we want to call the parties our arrows for “left” and “right,” that puts him more to the right. But, he came to those positions through worker protections concerns. And, it is not that uncommon for left wing parties in Europe to have similar concerns, I think? IMO, there are just too many issues to make a one or two dimensional map.
- relaxing 2y ago
  The “blue” in blue blood does not refer to Democrat, rather to patrician upbringing.
  - INTPenis 2y ago
    Thanks for clarifying, but you shouldn't mark every word I say since I am clearly not American. I learned english by watching the Fresh Prince on TV.
glimshe 2y ago
Make being a landlord too tough, rental properties will disappear. When you hear "landlord", you might think of a Duke enjoying a lavish meal while the tenants slave away in the fields to pay rent. Or a huge corporation. But there are a ton of middle and upper middle class people who are land "lords". I was one myself. I rented out my house, after moving to another city for a job, to wait for a market recovery post the 2000s housing bubble. I was a landlord for 3 years. I couldn't wait for it to be over. It was a ton of work and tenants already have a ridiculous amount of power, even in a red state. I turned a small profit that only slightly helped paying rent on my new city. If you think being a landlord is easy money, give it a try someday. I understand we need to ensure fairness for everybody, but the way isn't cartoonishly demonizing all landlords.
- Spooky23 2y ago
  You were a hobbyist trying to eke out some income to stay solvent. Even in that situation, you’re upset with the proles and their meager power. It starts to get shitty when you enter the zone of the dentist with a half dozen or more properties and gets worse as you go up. The incentives are to leverage the buildings to grow and depreciating the property while maximizing the revenue. Just like rent seeking in technology, it’s not pleasant.
- bee_rider 2y ago
  I’ve rented from individuals and it is fine. The real pain is the big corporate places that make it a business to do renting. They have the scale to be motivated to nickel and dime you about stupid stuff, and, like, living in a place where corporate policy types make all the rules is hell, but worse, because the demons are stupid as well as evil. We should be really targeted in our regulations, hit places with more than, say, 10 tenants pretty hard. Regulate them out of existence, even. Then you’d have had less competition.
- INTPenis 2y ago
  Funny how it works everywhere else.

uyzstvqs 2y ago

The fact that there are a not insignificant number of people comparing this game to the real world suggests that basic economic education is severely lacking. There's actually this great book called Basic Economics, for those interested.

mschuster91 2y ago
> The fact that there are a not insignificant number of people comparing this game to the real world suggests that basic economic education is severely lacking. Landlords aren't needed for a society to work. A lot of Eastern European countries have home-ownership rates way beyond 90% [1] - that allows the economies of these countries to be able to undercut Western European countries on wages despite everyday cost of life (e.g. electricity, food, gas) being similar to Western Europe (or, like in Croatia, often enough even more expensive than that!), as there are almost no landlords extracting value off of society and into the hands of the very few very rich. The only place where landlords actually fill a valid gap are to serve those who have to move to a new place or who are in the country only for short/medium term. It's not surprising that the countries with high homeownership rates are formerly Communist or (like the Nordics) strongly Social Democrat in history. A population is way happier when they do not have to fear eviction every day in life. [1] https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/155734/umfrage/wohneigentumsquoten-in-europa/ https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/155734/umfrag...
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  The reason for this could be a lack of people coming into the country that need a home. If the number of people entering a country is minimal, the demand won't go up, and almost everyone can afford a home. If there are far more people entering then homes get chopped up into apartments and each rented out for the same price the whole house would've been rented for a few years ago. Landlords in this situation are just adjusting the supply to meet the demand, and to be honest doing a better job than, say, the UK government, who just pay taxpayer money to hotels and stick people in them.
  - 2y ago

derelicta 2y ago

Tell this to the Citizens of Vienna and Singapore, where the landlord is the State, or not for profit orgs propped up by the State.

zertrin 2y ago
What. No. In Singapore the state-built apartments (HDB flats) are sold not lent to the Singaporeans/permanent residents. The state does not operate as a landlord. Most of the population owns their property here.
- ramesh31 2y ago
  >Most of the population owns their property here. ...as a direct result of government policy that discourages landlording.

timbit42 2y ago

Housing cooperatives. Anyone who prefers democracy would probably also prefer housing cooperatives and worker cooperatives.