4 ms·

Potosi is well worth the visit, if anybody had ever doubts how brutal slavery could be, look no more. Slaves lasted 6 weeks before dying horribly in some of the

by jajko 2y ago

Potosi is well worth the visit, if anybody had ever doubts how brutal slavery could be, look no more. Slaves lasted 6 weeks before dying horribly in some of the jobs they had, mostly in ore processing parts. Or if you want to see why its really not a good idea to be pregnant in >4000m altitude, look at their local church. Mines themselves are surprisingly still open and locals work there, even if they know very well within 15-20 years most of them will develop aggressive lung cancer. IIRC its from fine silica dust that is all over those mines in form of thick dust (and sometimes even raw crystals form on the walls). The hill in which the mines are is pure emmental, around 5000 entries IIRC from various directions and ages. Visited them with my wife/fiancée few years ago, local woman whose husband died from what I described above guided us quite deep inside. Never saw actual red sticks of dynamite with the burning string till that day. We offered very strong alcohol and coca leaves to Pachamama, had some leaves with 'activator' ourselves (and then went blabbing for half an hour due to mouth and tongue anesthesia). Those silica in the air are not benign, so there are warnings everywhere (and good modern masks should definitely help, we didn't have those unfortunately this was well before covid). A powerful experience, as backpacking around whole Bolivia is, to us its the most interesting country in South America to visit for intense adventure and lifelong memories. Yungas death road on a rented bike is another very memorable experience, from snowed plains and glaciers 4700m high into jungle in few hours.

rendall 2y ago
I do not know much about Bolivia. The little I know comes from this series by the travel vlogger Bald and Bankrupt: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqWdYjn21PdFLL0gOBMRf3HmyLQ6B_IW_ https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqWdYjn21PdFLL0gOBMRf3Hmy... The impression this series gives is that Bolivia can be somewhat dangerous. For instance, from his Wikipedia article, the ... video about a trip to Patamanta in Bolivia was reported by Gizmodo Español as "more scary than entering Chernobyl". In the video, he informed a local woman that he was a tourist, prompting her to warn him that "they burn people" in the area. Two men later approached Rich, inspected his passport, and gave him 30 minutes to explore and leave the area. And that video actually is terrifying. But, given that you backpacked around Bolivia with your fiance, your experience must have been different? Was Bald unfair to Bolivia? Is it relatively safe?
- lukan 2y ago
  "Is it relatively safe?" I have not been to Bolivia myself, but this question is always relative. It depends what you count as save and where do you want to go, but also on your experience. "for intense adventure and lifelong memories. Yungas death road on a rented bike is another very memorable experience" Parent seems to have a higher risk tolerance. Also it matters a lot, if you can speak spanish and can act like a local. But if you look and act like a helpless gringo tourist, then you will likely get robbed or worse on the first day. But I know people who hitchhiked there without serious trouble as white gringos. So the answer is probably, it depends.
  - jajko 2y ago
    I have more than a year of cumulative backpacking experience all around the world when its just you, guide book ie Lonely planet and a loose plan for maybe next 2-4 days, mostly India but also other places. I don't know if that makes me one with 'higher risk tolerance', definitely higher than 0 to actually experience anything interesting. But I do some more intense sports like climbing or paragliding where some risk is unavoidable and you do your best to minimize your exposure to it, and this mindset then permeates rest of your persona. As for Bolivia, what parent described sounds like some extreme case of 'I walk randomly into favela with gold chain around the neck and rolex watches and shit happened' kind of foolish beginner behavior. Backpacking gives you some instincts what not to do. Did I feel safe in Bolivia in those few places we've done? Absolutely. Is the whole country completely safe in any situation? Most probably not, or it wasn't in 2018, no idea about current affairs. Btw neither me nor my fiancee/wife speak spanish, you can get by with 20 words if you have to. I've gone to Iran in cca 2015 (Mont Damavand, a bit of culture), an amazing experience and one of my best. Wouldn't go there currently, not because common people got bad (no, they were amazing and everybody spoke english well) but politics made it unsafe.
    - lukan 2y ago
      "I don't know if that makes me one with 'higher risk tolerance'" Compared to an average human, I would say yes. And yes, speaking the local language is not a must, I also got by in poor and potential dangerous places by communicating with hand and feat. Eye contact. The way one treats the people matters. Do they perceive you as a arrogant, bored rich westener who has come to visit the poor people zoo? That might end bad. But showing genuine interest yields different results.
user070223 2y ago
Kris Lane[0] has excellent work on potosi Potosi - "the first global city" [1] Potosi: The Silver City That Changed the World by Kris Lane[2] I've encountered Kris's work during the pandemic; He released a book "Pandemic in Potosí: Fear, Loathing, and Public Piety in a Colonial Mining Metropolis" [3] about the pandemic in 1719 which killed third of the city Potosi as a silver hotspot had a coin mint, and of course it had a fraud[4] https://liberalarts.tulane.edu/history/people/faculty-staff-name/kris-e-lane https://liberalarts.tulane.edu/history/people/faculty-staff-... https://aeon.co/essays/potosi-the-mountain-of-silver-that-was-the-first-global-city https://aeon.co/essays/potosi-the-mountain-of-silver-that-wa... https://www.amazon.com/Potosi-Changed-California-History-Library/dp/0520280849 https://www.amazon.com/Potosi-Changed-California-History-Lib... https://www.psupress.org/books/titles/978-0-271-09198-3.html https://www.psupress.org/books/titles/978-0-271-09198-3.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Potos%C3%AD_Mint_Fraud_of_1649 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Potos%C3%AD_Mint_Fraud_o...

by jajko 2y ago

rendall 2y ago

I do not know much about Bolivia. The little I know comes from this series by the travel vlogger Bald and Bankrupt: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqWdYjn21PdFLL0gOBMRf3HmyLQ6B_IW_ https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqWdYjn21PdFLL0gOBMRf3Hmy... The impression this series gives is that Bolivia can be somewhat dangerous. For instance, from his Wikipedia article, the ... video about a trip to Patamanta in Bolivia was reported by Gizmodo Español as "more scary than entering Chernobyl". In the video, he informed a local woman that he was a tourist, prompting her to warn him that "they burn people" in the area. Two men later approached Rich, inspected his passport, and gave him 30 minutes to explore and leave the area. And that video actually is terrifying. But, given that you backpacked around Bolivia with your fiance, your experience must have been different? Was Bald unfair to Bolivia? Is it relatively safe?

lukan 2y ago
"Is it relatively safe?" I have not been to Bolivia myself, but this question is always relative. It depends what you count as save and where do you want to go, but also on your experience. "for intense adventure and lifelong memories. Yungas death road on a rented bike is another very memorable experience" Parent seems to have a higher risk tolerance. Also it matters a lot, if you can speak spanish and can act like a local. But if you look and act like a helpless gringo tourist, then you will likely get robbed or worse on the first day. But I know people who hitchhiked there without serious trouble as white gringos. So the answer is probably, it depends.
- jajko 2y ago
  I have more than a year of cumulative backpacking experience all around the world when its just you, guide book ie Lonely planet and a loose plan for maybe next 2-4 days, mostly India but also other places. I don't know if that makes me one with 'higher risk tolerance', definitely higher than 0 to actually experience anything interesting. But I do some more intense sports like climbing or paragliding where some risk is unavoidable and you do your best to minimize your exposure to it, and this mindset then permeates rest of your persona. As for Bolivia, what parent described sounds like some extreme case of 'I walk randomly into favela with gold chain around the neck and rolex watches and shit happened' kind of foolish beginner behavior. Backpacking gives you some instincts what not to do. Did I feel safe in Bolivia in those few places we've done? Absolutely. Is the whole country completely safe in any situation? Most probably not, or it wasn't in 2018, no idea about current affairs. Btw neither me nor my fiancee/wife speak spanish, you can get by with 20 words if you have to. I've gone to Iran in cca 2015 (Mont Damavand, a bit of culture), an amazing experience and one of my best. Wouldn't go there currently, not because common people got bad (no, they were amazing and everybody spoke english well) but politics made it unsafe.
  - lukan 2y ago
    "I don't know if that makes me one with 'higher risk tolerance'" Compared to an average human, I would say yes. And yes, speaking the local language is not a must, I also got by in poor and potential dangerous places by communicating with hand and feat. Eye contact. The way one treats the people matters. Do they perceive you as a arrogant, bored rich westener who has come to visit the poor people zoo? That might end bad. But showing genuine interest yields different results.

user070223 2y ago

Kris Lane[0] has excellent work on potosi Potosi - "the first global city" [1] Potosi: The Silver City That Changed the World by Kris Lane[2] I've encountered Kris's work during the pandemic; He released a book "Pandemic in Potosí: Fear, Loathing, and Public Piety in a Colonial Mining Metropolis" [3] about the pandemic in 1719 which killed third of the city Potosi as a silver hotspot had a coin mint, and of course it had a fraud[4] https://liberalarts.tulane.edu/history/people/faculty-staff-name/kris-e-lane https://liberalarts.tulane.edu/history/people/faculty-staff-... https://aeon.co/essays/potosi-the-mountain-of-silver-that-was-the-first-global-city https://aeon.co/essays/potosi-the-mountain-of-silver-that-wa... https://www.amazon.com/Potosi-Changed-California-History-Library/dp/0520280849 https://www.amazon.com/Potosi-Changed-California-History-Lib... https://www.psupress.org/books/titles/978-0-271-09198-3.html https://www.psupress.org/books/titles/978-0-271-09198-3.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Potos%C3%AD_Mint_Fraud_of_1649 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Potos%C3%AD_Mint_Fraud_o...