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A not often discussed problem with the EU guarantee is that in the first 6 months, every defect is presumed to have been present at the time it was bought. Aft

A not often discussed problem with the EU guarantee is that in the first 6 months, every defect is presumed to have been present at the time it was bought. After 6 months it is on the consumer to prove it, and for most things it is just not worth it to pay for an expert opinion. So in practice the iron clad guarantee is only 6 months for most consumer products. At least that's the interpretation of the law in the UK. edit: small claims courts are quite accessible in the UK, so often the threat of small claims can get thing moving.

Denvercoder9 2y ago
The term at which burden of proof shifts from the retailer to the consumer has been raised to 1 year in the EU (maybe not in the UK due to Brexit). As this is a matter of civil law, the standard of proof is also "more likely than not" proof, not "beyond reasonable doubt". You don't necessarily need an expert opinion, it _can_ be sufficient to collect a bunch of reports of similar failures.
- gpderetta 2y ago
  > The term at which burden of proof shifts from the retailer to the consumer has been raised to 1 year in the EU This is great to know. Unfortunately yes, UK won't pick it up automatically. And yes, in practice you need enough proof to convince a small claim judge, which might not be a lot, especially if the defect is well documented.
Someone 2y ago
> A not often discussed problem with the EU guarantee is that in the first 6 months, every defect is presumed to have been present at the time it was bought. After 6 months it is on the consumer to prove it, and for most things it is just not worth it to pay for an expert opinion. I don’t think the EU says anything that specific (https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers/consumer-contracts-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers...) > At least that's the interpretation of the law in the UK. If that’s true, I think it would be specific to the UK. Also, what the UK says isn’t relevant for discussing EU consumer rights anymore.
- gpderetta 2y ago
  That's just the summary. If you follow the link to "EU Directive on the sale of consumer goods and associated guarantees" [1], Article 5.3 states: "3. Unless proved otherwise, any lack of conformity which becomes apparent within six months of delivery of the goods shall be presumed to have existed at the time of delivery unless this presumption is incompatible with the nature of the goods or the nature of the lack of conformity." A sibling comment states that this might have increased to one year though. [1] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:31999L0044 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:31...

Denvercoder9 2y ago

The term at which burden of proof shifts from the retailer to the consumer has been raised to 1 year in the EU (maybe not in the UK due to Brexit). As this is a matter of civil law, the standard of proof is also "more likely than not" proof, not "beyond reasonable doubt". You don't necessarily need an expert opinion, it _can_ be sufficient to collect a bunch of reports of similar failures.

gpderetta 2y ago
> The term at which burden of proof shifts from the retailer to the consumer has been raised to 1 year in the EU This is great to know. Unfortunately yes, UK won't pick it up automatically. And yes, in practice you need enough proof to convince a small claim judge, which might not be a lot, especially if the defect is well documented.

Someone 2y ago

> A not often discussed problem with the EU guarantee is that in the first 6 months, every defect is presumed to have been present at the time it was bought. After 6 months it is on the consumer to prove it, and for most things it is just not worth it to pay for an expert opinion. I don’t think the EU says anything that specific (https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers/consumer-contracts-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers...) > At least that's the interpretation of the law in the UK. If that’s true, I think it would be specific to the UK. Also, what the UK says isn’t relevant for discussing EU consumer rights anymore.

gpderetta 2y ago
That's just the summary. If you follow the link to "EU Directive on the sale of consumer goods and associated guarantees" [1], Article 5.3 states: "3. Unless proved otherwise, any lack of conformity which becomes apparent within six months of delivery of the goods shall be presumed to have existed at the time of delivery unless this presumption is incompatible with the nature of the goods or the nature of the lack of conformity." A sibling comment states that this might have increased to one year though. [1] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:31999L0044 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:31...