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Disclaimer: I haven't seen the video (I'm in a quiet place right now.) > And that those properties (being hard to damage/destruct and being easy to repair) mig

Disclaimer: I haven't seen the video (I'm in a quiet place right now.) > And that those properties (being hard to damage/destruct and being easy to repair) might be mutually exclusive. I disagree on a fundamental level. You could say such a thing when talking about really small (micro/miniature) devices. But as size increases, the validity of such arguments rapidly goes down. A phone case/bumper for example - makes the device larger, yes - but increases strength while not hurting reparability. The "problem", imo, is two-fold: 1. Apple does not care too much about making repairs easy. If it costs $100 to make a board they can charge a customer $500 to repair, or $800 for a new phone, it's easy for them. 2. (Some) people prefer sleeker designs. Samsung has its active range of phones, CAT makes durable phones - but many prefer a smaller thickness/bezel etc. This means that when tech improves to make smaller bezels, manufacturers decrease the bezel a little and add protective padding a little... haha no. It's only bezel reduction. Because it sell, I suppose. For example gorilla glass/protective glass has improved in technology, but thinner screens (for thinner devices) have eaten up the benefits of stronger tech. The real "killer" argument? The presence of companies like Framework. I'm typing this out on my FW13 & its build quality is really good. Perhaps a 10 year old thinkpad may be similar or better, but this is almost certainly thinner. But it is almost definitely more repairable. It's possible, but requires companies to offer products, and people to use and buy them.

divan 2y ago
> I haven't seen the video ... I disagree on a fundamental level. Right )
- divan 2y ago
  For those who are downvoting. This was an extreme example of a debate not worth having. There is no better way to show that you don't care about truth and only care about defending your current opinion than to say "I don't know your arguments, but I disagree".
  - hobs 2y ago
    It's not on people to watch hour long youtube videos to rejoin your argument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
    - divan 2y ago
      Good point, but this would apply to ongoing debate. In this case person jumped in into conversation with the premise "I don't have time to listen to arguments but here's mine opinion". The thing is, all the theories of communication for persuasion (Social Judgement Theory and Elaboration Likelihood Model mostly) boil down to "hear your audience". If you really want to convince or persuade anyone, the starting point is to understand what's in the head of the audience you are trying to persuade. It's not often easy to get this information, so you start by expressing your views and carefully listening to the answers and arguments of those who have different views. So if you have a chance to get the arguments in advance – before communicating your opinion – it's a blessing. It's a free lunch for persuasive communication. You're given people's opinions and arguments on the plate, basically. And here this free lunch is thrown away just to be replaced with "here is my opinion and I don't care about arguments" communication style. That's not a starting point for debate at all.
      - user_7832 2y ago
        > And here this free lunch is thrown away just to be replaced with "here is my opinion and I don't care about arguments" communication style. That's not a starting point for debate at all. I'm sorry if it came across that way but I absolutely didn't mean it like that. I'm happy to have my point refuted. I am a (mechanical) engineer but haven't worked in this specific field professionally, so I felt I might be able to contribute, as making devices sturdier is something I think a lot about. I normally don't mind watching MKBHD's videos, at that point of time I was in a silent place where I couldn't have done it.
- luyu_wu 2y ago
  Parent of parent explained the premise of the video correctly. For someone who's complaining about the parent not watching the video, it really comes off as you having not even watched the video.
  - divan 2y ago
    > it really comes off as you having not even watched the video. I fail to understand the link here. The video contains arguments and examples of that premise. Dismissing arguments and jumping straight into the "here's my opinion" is exactly the communication style I chuckled upon.
mschuster91 2y ago
> but many prefer a smaller thickness/bezel etc. There would not be an issue for Apple or Samsung to design a backplane that uses screws to hold the phone together, eliminating the need for glue entirely. It just looks a bit ugly.
- creshal 2y ago
  It is so easy indeed that Samsung has been making such phones for over a decade. If people started putting their money where their mouth is, maybe they'd even sell.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    People buy what is advertised to them, let's be real. Yes, Samsung offers such devices, and I for example have an Active Tab 3 as my daily driver (despite its issues, such as the screen being glued to the case, and the glue is not water-tight when it gets even remotely warm). But most people are going to buy what their telco offers on sale, and that is iPhones and Samsung Galaxy S series. Everything else is specialty that you need to buy in cash.
throwaway2037 2y ago
> For example gorilla glass/protective glass has improved in technology, but thinner screens (for thinner devices) have eaten up the benefits of stronger tech. This is an interesting point. I didn't think about it, but it makes sense. Are there any "chonky" mobile phones with very thick cases & screens... like the Panasonic ToughBook?
- creshal 2y ago
  A variety of manufacturers has them, CAT e.g., but even Samsung has been having a line of them for over a decade. Manufacturers also keep making phones with headphone jacks, sd slots, swappable batteries, and all the other features that people loudly insist they want in their phones, right until it comes to choosing a new phone to buy. Then they buy something thin and flimsy again and repeat the whine cycle; and every year another manufacturer drops their sturdy&servicable line because nobody cares enough to actually buy it.
  - baud147258 2y ago
    what's the name of the Samsung line? I might be in the market for a new phone soon-ish
  - mminer237 2y ago
    I mean, if you want a supported phone with a headphone jack and swappable battery, you're pretty much just down to the Samsung Galaxy Xcover now, which has a CPU from 6 years ago and no fingerprint reader. It's definitely possible, but nowadays there's major tradeoffs to get features that used to be standard.
laserlight 2y ago
> Apple does not care too much about making repairs easy. They do. iPhone 14 internals was redesigned to be more repairable [0], which extended to pro models with iPhone 15 [1]. [0] https://www.ifixit.com/News/64865/iphone-14-teardown https://www.ifixit.com/News/64865/iphone-14-teardown [1] https://www.ifixit.com/News/82867/iphone-15-teardown-reveals-software-lockdown https://www.ifixit.com/News/82867/iphone-15-teardown-reveals...
- moooo99 2y ago
  But repairability isn't only about the components being accessible (the glue holding in the battery is an absolute nightmare). It is also about the availability of authentic parts. Historically, Apple made sourcing genuine parts an impossible feat. This potentially wouldn't even be a problem, if Apple didn't go to such great lengths to detect "non authentic parts". They changed that somewhat, but only for private consumers. Their model for their repair/replacement parts program still makes it borderline impossible to operate an independent repair service business, effectively protecting Apple from any competition.

divan 2y ago

> I haven't seen the video ... I disagree on a fundamental level. Right )

divan 2y ago
For those who are downvoting. This was an extreme example of a debate not worth having. There is no better way to show that you don't care about truth and only care about defending your current opinion than to say "I don't know your arguments, but I disagree".
- hobs 2y ago
  It's not on people to watch hour long youtube videos to rejoin your argument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
  - divan 2y ago
    Good point, but this would apply to ongoing debate. In this case person jumped in into conversation with the premise "I don't have time to listen to arguments but here's mine opinion". The thing is, all the theories of communication for persuasion (Social Judgement Theory and Elaboration Likelihood Model mostly) boil down to "hear your audience". If you really want to convince or persuade anyone, the starting point is to understand what's in the head of the audience you are trying to persuade. It's not often easy to get this information, so you start by expressing your views and carefully listening to the answers and arguments of those who have different views. So if you have a chance to get the arguments in advance – before communicating your opinion – it's a blessing. It's a free lunch for persuasive communication. You're given people's opinions and arguments on the plate, basically. And here this free lunch is thrown away just to be replaced with "here is my opinion and I don't care about arguments" communication style. That's not a starting point for debate at all.
    - user_7832 2y ago
      > And here this free lunch is thrown away just to be replaced with "here is my opinion and I don't care about arguments" communication style. That's not a starting point for debate at all. I'm sorry if it came across that way but I absolutely didn't mean it like that. I'm happy to have my point refuted. I am a (mechanical) engineer but haven't worked in this specific field professionally, so I felt I might be able to contribute, as making devices sturdier is something I think a lot about. I normally don't mind watching MKBHD's videos, at that point of time I was in a silent place where I couldn't have done it.
luyu_wu 2y ago
Parent of parent explained the premise of the video correctly. For someone who's complaining about the parent not watching the video, it really comes off as you having not even watched the video.
- divan 2y ago
  > it really comes off as you having not even watched the video. I fail to understand the link here. The video contains arguments and examples of that premise. Dismissing arguments and jumping straight into the "here's my opinion" is exactly the communication style I chuckled upon.

mschuster91 2y ago

> but many prefer a smaller thickness/bezel etc. There would not be an issue for Apple or Samsung to design a backplane that uses screws to hold the phone together, eliminating the need for glue entirely. It just looks a bit ugly.

creshal 2y ago
It is so easy indeed that Samsung has been making such phones for over a decade. If people started putting their money where their mouth is, maybe they'd even sell.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  People buy what is advertised to them, let's be real. Yes, Samsung offers such devices, and I for example have an Active Tab 3 as my daily driver (despite its issues, such as the screen being glued to the case, and the glue is not water-tight when it gets even remotely warm). But most people are going to buy what their telco offers on sale, and that is iPhones and Samsung Galaxy S series. Everything else is specialty that you need to buy in cash.

throwaway2037 2y ago

> For example gorilla glass/protective glass has improved in technology, but thinner screens (for thinner devices) have eaten up the benefits of stronger tech. This is an interesting point. I didn't think about it, but it makes sense. Are there any "chonky" mobile phones with very thick cases & screens... like the Panasonic ToughBook?

creshal 2y ago
A variety of manufacturers has them, CAT e.g., but even Samsung has been having a line of them for over a decade. Manufacturers also keep making phones with headphone jacks, sd slots, swappable batteries, and all the other features that people loudly insist they want in their phones, right until it comes to choosing a new phone to buy. Then they buy something thin and flimsy again and repeat the whine cycle; and every year another manufacturer drops their sturdy&servicable line because nobody cares enough to actually buy it.
- baud147258 2y ago
  what's the name of the Samsung line? I might be in the market for a new phone soon-ish
- mminer237 2y ago
  I mean, if you want a supported phone with a headphone jack and swappable battery, you're pretty much just down to the Samsung Galaxy Xcover now, which has a CPU from 6 years ago and no fingerprint reader. It's definitely possible, but nowadays there's major tradeoffs to get features that used to be standard.

laserlight 2y ago

> Apple does not care too much about making repairs easy. They do. iPhone 14 internals was redesigned to be more repairable [0], which extended to pro models with iPhone 15 [1]. [0] https://www.ifixit.com/News/64865/iphone-14-teardown https://www.ifixit.com/News/64865/iphone-14-teardown [1] https://www.ifixit.com/News/82867/iphone-15-teardown-reveals-software-lockdown https://www.ifixit.com/News/82867/iphone-15-teardown-reveals...

moooo99 2y ago
But repairability isn't only about the components being accessible (the glue holding in the battery is an absolute nightmare). It is also about the availability of authentic parts. Historically, Apple made sourcing genuine parts an impossible feat. This potentially wouldn't even be a problem, if Apple didn't go to such great lengths to detect "non authentic parts". They changed that somewhat, but only for private consumers. Their model for their repair/replacement parts program still makes it borderline impossible to operate an independent repair service business, effectively protecting Apple from any competition.