7 ms·

Seems like China also has rather large uranium reserves, unlike many other countries, so it makes a lot of sense for them to go nuclear.

by elric 2y ago

preisschild 2y ago
Tbf importing uranium is fairly easy and relatively cheap due to the high energy density.
- rob74 2y ago
  Yeah, and it's also a great way to reduce your energy dependency on certain non-friendly countries... oh wait: https://apnews.com/article/germany-france-russia-nuclear-power-rosatom-framatome-ce47027005349580306d55553c7f1142 https://apnews.com/article/germany-france-russia-nuclear-pow...
  - preisschild 2y ago
    That company is just using russian engineers for russian-designed Reactors. Not to mention that you don't even need to do that. Westinghouse already builds VVER fuel assemblies without Russians (they are supplying Ukraine's nuclear power plants, for example)
- elric 2y ago
  Importing it from where? Russia? Ukraine? China? Australia & Canada are probably viable options for Western nations, but that introduces more dependencies.
  - chickenbig 2y ago
    > that introduces more dependencies Uranium does have the benefit of being very energy dense, so stockpiling it is relatively simple. Also see the IAEA Low Enriched Uranium Bank. https://www.iaea.org/topics/iaea-low-enriched-uranium-bank https://www.iaea.org/topics/iaea-low-enriched-uranium-bank
defrost 2y ago
By international standards, China's ores are low-grade and production has been inefficient, due in part to the remote, mountain location of deposits. In 2022 uranium production was an estimated 1700 tU. As noted in peer comment uranium is energy dense and relatively little is required. Also, by global known deposit standards the ore density and ease of mining in parts of Canada, Africa, Australia, Kazakhstan (!!! 43 percent of global uranium production in 2022) dwarf those in most other parts of the world. For interest, re: Uranium in China, the initial quote here comes from https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-a-f/china-nuclear-fuel-cycle https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profil...
- throwup238 2y ago
  It’s worth noting that Uranium mining uses the same nasty liquid-liquid extraction process used for rare earth metals. That’s why the mountainous locations in China suck - they have to move a lot of rock. A few countries dominate the industry because the vast majority of the world wants nothing to do with the environmental consequences of the toxic corrosive waste. If push came to shove, many more countries would be able to spin up Uranium mining to replace any sources that fall victim to geopolitics. Since it doesn’t go bad, a relatively small stockpile goes a long way while the industry adjusts.
  - jjk166 2y ago
    Uranium is mined by in-situ leaching. You don't have to move any rock (well a little, but astronomically less than for traditional mining). It's not at all similar to rare-earth mining.
    - defrost 2y ago
      That's one of many methods to mine uranium, used when the grades are low and the returns so poor that vast amounts of rock would have to be physically moved to return a kilogram of target ore. It works in particular geologic formations. Large numbers of in-situ uranium wells were established in the US during the cold war at great expense to ensure some domestic supply, none the less the overwhelming majority of WWII and cold war uranium for weapons was sourced from outside the US and today the bulk of uranium for power is sourced outside the US. The largest uranium mines in the world do not use in situ leaching, Olympic dam (the largest known single deposit) uses underground mining, specifically sublevel open stoping, to extract uranium, gold, copper, and silver. Cameco's McArthur River mine is, IIRC, the largest producer (most currently extracted yearly, although not largest deposit) and also, not suprisingly, not an in-situ leach mine, it's underground tunnels with level to level rock grinding bores that drop rock to automated trucks, ground and slurried and then pumped to the surface for further processing some 80 km away at another plant. ( See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_cYEBotDBo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_cYEBotDBo )
chasil 2y ago
Uranium 235 as a fissile fuel is a very small percentage of the total uranium available (0.720% from the wiki). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium In order to make reactor fuel, this percentage must be increased, via conversion of the metal to uranium hexafloride gas, which is purified via gas centrifuges. As opposed to this, thorium does not require difficult purification steps, but it does require a neutron source to start a reaction that converts a small portion of it to uranium 233. From the uranium 235 purification perspective, uranium is an awkward fuel for commercial use.
- thijson 2y ago
  I think it's a shame that we don't breed more fuel. The majority of mined Uranium 238 can be made fissile in a breeder reactor (fast neutrons), just like with Thorium. It does require reprocessing, which is a taboo topic due to proliferation concerns. Plutonium doesn't build up in a breeder reactor, the fast neutrons split it. Our existing light water reactors have a build up of plutonium over time. I guess that's desirable when your objective is bombs. A lot of the long lived radioisotopes get broken down in a breeder reactor, so the waste degrades to safe levels much quicker (a few hundred years). The Gates backed reactor (Terrapower) in Wyoming is using fast neutrons.
  - chasil 2y ago
    There is a vast supply of thorium 232, produced as waste in rare earth mining. Why breed uranium? "Natural thorium is usually almost pure 232-Th, which is the longest-lived and most stable isotope of thorium, having a half-life comparable to the age of the universe. Its radioactive decay is the largest single contributor to the Earth's internal heat; the other major contributors are the shorter-lived primordial radionuclides, which are 238U, 40K, and 235U in descending order of their contribution. "[Thorium] is the 37th most abundant element in the Earth’s crust with an abundance of 12 parts per million. "The low demand makes working mines for extraction of thorium alone not profitable, and it is almost always extracted with the rare earths, which themselves may be by-products of production of other minerals." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium

Seems like China also has rather large uranium reserves, unlike many other countries, so it makes a lot of sense for them to go nuclear.

by elric 2y ago

Seems like China also has rather large uranium reserves, unlike many other countries, so it makes a lot of sense for them to go nuclear.

preisschild 2y ago

Tbf importing uranium is fairly easy and relatively cheap due to the high energy density.

rob74 2y ago
Yeah, and it's also a great way to reduce your energy dependency on certain non-friendly countries... oh wait: https://apnews.com/article/germany-france-russia-nuclear-power-rosatom-framatome-ce47027005349580306d55553c7f1142 https://apnews.com/article/germany-france-russia-nuclear-pow...
- preisschild 2y ago
  That company is just using russian engineers for russian-designed Reactors. Not to mention that you don't even need to do that. Westinghouse already builds VVER fuel assemblies without Russians (they are supplying Ukraine's nuclear power plants, for example)
elric 2y ago
Importing it from where? Russia? Ukraine? China? Australia & Canada are probably viable options for Western nations, but that introduces more dependencies.
- chickenbig 2y ago
  > that introduces more dependencies Uranium does have the benefit of being very energy dense, so stockpiling it is relatively simple. Also see the IAEA Low Enriched Uranium Bank. https://www.iaea.org/topics/iaea-low-enriched-uranium-bank https://www.iaea.org/topics/iaea-low-enriched-uranium-bank

defrost 2y ago

By international standards, China's ores are low-grade and production has been inefficient, due in part to the remote, mountain location of deposits. In 2022 uranium production was an estimated 1700 tU. As noted in peer comment uranium is energy dense and relatively little is required. Also, by global known deposit standards the ore density and ease of mining in parts of Canada, Africa, Australia, Kazakhstan (!!! 43 percent of global uranium production in 2022) dwarf those in most other parts of the world. For interest, re: Uranium in China, the initial quote here comes from https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-a-f/china-nuclear-fuel-cycle https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profil...

throwup238 2y ago
It’s worth noting that Uranium mining uses the same nasty liquid-liquid extraction process used for rare earth metals. That’s why the mountainous locations in China suck - they have to move a lot of rock. A few countries dominate the industry because the vast majority of the world wants nothing to do with the environmental consequences of the toxic corrosive waste. If push came to shove, many more countries would be able to spin up Uranium mining to replace any sources that fall victim to geopolitics. Since it doesn’t go bad, a relatively small stockpile goes a long way while the industry adjusts.
- jjk166 2y ago
  Uranium is mined by in-situ leaching. You don't have to move any rock (well a little, but astronomically less than for traditional mining). It's not at all similar to rare-earth mining.
  - defrost 2y ago
    That's one of many methods to mine uranium, used when the grades are low and the returns so poor that vast amounts of rock would have to be physically moved to return a kilogram of target ore. It works in particular geologic formations. Large numbers of in-situ uranium wells were established in the US during the cold war at great expense to ensure some domestic supply, none the less the overwhelming majority of WWII and cold war uranium for weapons was sourced from outside the US and today the bulk of uranium for power is sourced outside the US. The largest uranium mines in the world do not use in situ leaching, Olympic dam (the largest known single deposit) uses underground mining, specifically sublevel open stoping, to extract uranium, gold, copper, and silver. Cameco's McArthur River mine is, IIRC, the largest producer (most currently extracted yearly, although not largest deposit) and also, not suprisingly, not an in-situ leach mine, it's underground tunnels with level to level rock grinding bores that drop rock to automated trucks, ground and slurried and then pumped to the surface for further processing some 80 km away at another plant. ( See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_cYEBotDBo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_cYEBotDBo )

chasil 2y ago

Uranium 235 as a fissile fuel is a very small percentage of the total uranium available (0.720% from the wiki). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium In order to make reactor fuel, this percentage must be increased, via conversion of the metal to uranium hexafloride gas, which is purified via gas centrifuges. As opposed to this, thorium does not require difficult purification steps, but it does require a neutron source to start a reaction that converts a small portion of it to uranium 233. From the uranium 235 purification perspective, uranium is an awkward fuel for commercial use.

thijson 2y ago
I think it's a shame that we don't breed more fuel. The majority of mined Uranium 238 can be made fissile in a breeder reactor (fast neutrons), just like with Thorium. It does require reprocessing, which is a taboo topic due to proliferation concerns. Plutonium doesn't build up in a breeder reactor, the fast neutrons split it. Our existing light water reactors have a build up of plutonium over time. I guess that's desirable when your objective is bombs. A lot of the long lived radioisotopes get broken down in a breeder reactor, so the waste degrades to safe levels much quicker (a few hundred years). The Gates backed reactor (Terrapower) in Wyoming is using fast neutrons.
- chasil 2y ago
  There is a vast supply of thorium 232, produced as waste in rare earth mining. Why breed uranium? "Natural thorium is usually almost pure 232-Th, which is the longest-lived and most stable isotope of thorium, having a half-life comparable to the age of the universe. Its radioactive decay is the largest single contributor to the Earth's internal heat; the other major contributors are the shorter-lived primordial radionuclides, which are 238U, 40K, and 235U in descending order of their contribution. "[Thorium] is the 37th most abundant element in the Earth’s crust with an abundance of 12 parts per million. "The low demand makes working mines for extraction of thorium alone not profitable, and it is almost always extracted with the rare earths, which themselves may be by-products of production of other minerals." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium