4 ms·

This is an interesting question; Netherlands has a similar law, and the general guidelines for stuff like ovens is, depending on the purchase price: ≤ € 199

by arp242 2y ago

This is an interesting question; Netherlands has a similar law, and the general guidelines for stuff like ovens is, depending on the purchase price: ≤ € 199 2 years € 200 - 299 3 years € 300 - 399 4 years € 400 - 499 5 years € 500 - 599 6 years € 600 - 699 7 years ≥ € 700 8 years Note these are just guidelines and not fixed rules. On one hand this seems rather short to me, on the other hand, it's kind of a "you get what you pay for" affair. I don't really know what profit margins manufacturers have, but when I worked for a store profit margins for us really weren't all that big for us (and also didn't scale as much with price as many people assume).

bzzzt 2y ago
Note that this doesn't mean you get 8 years of warranty on an expensive oven. Just that if it fails in 4 years you still can claim 50% of the purchase price.
- Denvercoder9 2y ago
  This is not true. You have the right to a "deugdelijk product" (good product) for the entire expected lifespan of the product, and if it breaks in that, they do have to fix it (or provide a comparable replacement). If, however, for whatever reason you don't want that, you can't demand all your money back, but only 50%. That's only if you agree to the money though, the seller can't unilaterally choose to give you 50% back instead of repairing it.
Denvercoder9 2y ago
Note that this table comes from "Techniek Nederland", which is a business association of (among others) technical retailers. They've an interest in lowering the expected lifespan of appliances, as that means their members have less warranty to provide. They actually note (probably for legal reasons) along with their table that it contains average usage, not expected lifespan (i.e. how long people use things before they replace it, as opposed to how long you could use it before it breaks). Courts will, and have in the past, throw this table out, if you make a reasonable argument why you could expect a longer lifespan.
- arp242 2y ago
  It was linked from the ACM or consumentenbond, or some such consumer website. I don't have the tab open, but it wasn't just a random link from Google. But yeah, it's just a guideline like I said. Some people here are throwing out numbers such as a "15 years" or "decades" with no qualifiers, and I'm not sure if that's reasonable for a €230 oven (cheapest in a quick check). Aside on retailers: I haven't worked in a store in 15 years, but back then a lot of manufacturers just said "lol fuck you" when you tried to claim warranty above their stated warranty period. It was typically up to the retailers to bear the costs. One (of several) reason we left the consumer business: it's hard to compete as a small independent store for many different reasons, and this just made it that much harder. You can't spread out the costs, and you have almost no leverage against Asus or HP. In short, at least back then the manufacturers could just keep shipping wank without really suffering too much damage to their bottom line, and the retailers with essentially no power to change anything were getting screwed. I don't know if that's changed, but probably not.
  - Denvercoder9 2y ago
    > It was linked from the ACM or consumentenbond, or some such consumer website. I don't have the tab open, but it wasn't just a random link from Google. Yes, it gets often quoted, but things don't become true by being often repeated. It probably wasn't the Consumentenbond, as they actively call out the list from Techniek Nederland (previously Uneto-VNI) as being too short on their website. [1] https://www.consumentenbond.nl/nieuws/2016/consumenten-hebben-vaak-langer-recht-op-garantie https://www.consumentenbond.nl/nieuws/2016/consumenten-hebbe...
consp 2y ago
An oven should last way longer than 2 years even if it's just 200 euro. These price/lifespan things are cow manure and made by trade associations and have no value in law. 200 euro also says nothing: 200 euro for a small tabletop oven is extremely expensive, for a large build-in one it's cheap. Considering as well it's usually a build in one, you can expect to not have to change it every two years.

by arp242 2y ago

bzzzt 2y ago

Note that this doesn't mean you get 8 years of warranty on an expensive oven. Just that if it fails in 4 years you still can claim 50% of the purchase price.

Denvercoder9 2y ago
This is not true. You have the right to a "deugdelijk product" (good product) for the entire expected lifespan of the product, and if it breaks in that, they do have to fix it (or provide a comparable replacement). If, however, for whatever reason you don't want that, you can't demand all your money back, but only 50%. That's only if you agree to the money though, the seller can't unilaterally choose to give you 50% back instead of repairing it.

Denvercoder9 2y ago

Note that this table comes from "Techniek Nederland", which is a business association of (among others) technical retailers. They've an interest in lowering the expected lifespan of appliances, as that means their members have less warranty to provide. They actually note (probably for legal reasons) along with their table that it contains average usage, not expected lifespan (i.e. how long people use things before they replace it, as opposed to how long you could use it before it breaks). Courts will, and have in the past, throw this table out, if you make a reasonable argument why you could expect a longer lifespan.

arp242 2y ago
It was linked from the ACM or consumentenbond, or some such consumer website. I don't have the tab open, but it wasn't just a random link from Google. But yeah, it's just a guideline like I said. Some people here are throwing out numbers such as a "15 years" or "decades" with no qualifiers, and I'm not sure if that's reasonable for a €230 oven (cheapest in a quick check). Aside on retailers: I haven't worked in a store in 15 years, but back then a lot of manufacturers just said "lol fuck you" when you tried to claim warranty above their stated warranty period. It was typically up to the retailers to bear the costs. One (of several) reason we left the consumer business: it's hard to compete as a small independent store for many different reasons, and this just made it that much harder. You can't spread out the costs, and you have almost no leverage against Asus or HP. In short, at least back then the manufacturers could just keep shipping wank without really suffering too much damage to their bottom line, and the retailers with essentially no power to change anything were getting screwed. I don't know if that's changed, but probably not.
- Denvercoder9 2y ago
  > It was linked from the ACM or consumentenbond, or some such consumer website. I don't have the tab open, but it wasn't just a random link from Google. Yes, it gets often quoted, but things don't become true by being often repeated. It probably wasn't the Consumentenbond, as they actively call out the list from Techniek Nederland (previously Uneto-VNI) as being too short on their website. [1] https://www.consumentenbond.nl/nieuws/2016/consumenten-hebben-vaak-langer-recht-op-garantie https://www.consumentenbond.nl/nieuws/2016/consumenten-hebbe...

consp 2y ago

An oven should last way longer than 2 years even if it's just 200 euro. These price/lifespan things are cow manure and made by trade associations and have no value in law. 200 euro also says nothing: 200 euro for a small tabletop oven is extremely expensive, for a large build-in one it's cheap. Considering as well it's usually a build in one, you can expect to not have to change it every two years.