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It says in the article that he was asked by readers to do a Lisa Su interview. The headline is a little misleading, they don't talk much about technological pro
by mike_hearn 2y ago
It says in the article that he was asked by readers to do a Lisa Su interview. The headline is a little misleading, they don't talk much about technological problems. The interview is a soft light tour of her career and a few attempts to get her to talk about the present day business. Interviews with someone like Musk or Jensen are much more technically intense.
Honestly this interview feels bearish for AMD. Su's performance is not good. Thompson repeatedly pushes her to reflect on past mistakes, but it's just not happening. The reason why AMD has fallen so far behind NVIDIA shine through clear as day and it doesn't look like it's going to get fixed anytime soon.
Su's problem and therefore AMD's problem is that she doesn't want to think about software at all. Hardware is all she knows and she states that openly. Nor does she seem to consider this a weakness. The problem goes back to the very start of her career. The interview opens with Thompson saying she faced a choice between computer science and electronics engineering at MIT, and she picked EE because it was harder. Is that true? She's nowhere in AI due to lack of sufficient skilled devs so now would be a good time to talk up the importance of software, but no, she laughs and says sure! CS seemed easy to her because you "just" write software instead of "building things", whereas in electronics your stuff "has to work". End of answer.
He tries to get a comment on the (in hindsight) not great design tradeoffs made by the Cell processor, which was hard to program for and so held back the PS3 at critical points in its lifecycle. It was a long time ago so there's been plenty of time to reflect on it, yet her only thought is "Perhaps one could say, if you look in hindsight, programmability is so important". That's it! In hindsight, programmability of your CPU is important! Then she immediately returns to hardware again, and saying how proud she was of the leaps in hardware made over the PS generations.
He asks her if she'd stayed at IBM and taken over there, would she have avoided Gerstner's mistake of ignoring the cloud? Her answer is "I don’t know that I would’ve been on that path. I was a semiconductor person, I am a semiconductor person." - again, she seems to just reject on principle the idea that she would think about software, networking or systems architecture because she defines herself as an electronics person.
Later Thompson tries harder to ram the point home, asking her "Where is the software piece of this? You can’t just be a hardware cowboy ... What is the reticence to software at AMD and how have you worked to change that?" and she just point-blank denies AMD has ever had a problem with software. Later she claims everything works out of the box with AMD and seems to imply that ROCm hardly matters because everyone is just programming against PyTorch anyway!
The final blow comes when he asks her about ChatGPT. A pivotal moment that catapults her competitor to absolute dominance, apparently catching AMD unaware. Thompson asks her what her response was. Was she surprised? Maybe she realized this was an all hands to deck moment? What did NVIDIA do right that you missed? Answer: no, we always knew and have always been good at AI. NVIDIA did nothing different to us.
The whole interview is just astonishing. Put under pressure to reflect on her market position, again and again Su retreats to outright denial and management waffle about "product arcs". It seems to be her go-to safe space. It's certainly possible she just decided to play it all as low key as possible and not say anything interesting to protect the share price, but if I was an analyst looking for signs of a quick turnaround in strategy there's no sign of that here.
- JonChesterfield 2y agoElectrical engineers do generally think software is easy. Even when their day is a horror show of TCL and verilog. In fairness I think hardware is horrendously difficult, so maybe they're not wrong.
- DanielHB 2y agoMost bachelor's and master's level CS is comparatively easier than EE because EE requires much more hard math. The theory at least, but project-wise CS is more demanding. I had two EE roommates in college, their exams were HARD, but their home-projects were easy compared to CS (less projects overall as well). I remember one exam my roommate complaining about was about getting all the formulas he needed into his scientific calculator before the exam even started. If you understood how to derive all the formulas and knew how to put them in the calculator and how to use them you passed the exam. I think it was analog circuit processing exam but I might be wrong. Research-level in computer science can get very hard as well though. A lot of it is more pure mathematics than engineering.
- foobarian 2y agoAs far as undergraduate work goes EE is harder due to the math background required, indeed. However, the thing is, if you take the same brilliant minds who would ace EE, and reallocate them to software, they won't magically throttle down and limit themselves to undergrad CS concepts; they will find and tackle all the complexity they can withstand. You end up with the JS ecosystem, CI/CD, IaC, columnar databases, and so on. So I wonder if some of this is happening where thinking that AMD doing undergrad CS-level effort is all there is, where there is actually invisible complexity that is being missed that NVidia managed to tackle.
- DanielHB 2y agoYeah I agree with you, if you see these programmers doing very advanced stuff they often have degrees in physics and the like. The hardest problems in CS today are all very math-focused. The original quote from the OP was about why Lisa Su decided to go EE bachelor though and EE bachelor indeed is one of the hardest ones out there. What I was trying to highlight is that although EE is harder, CS has a bigger workload due to all the personal projects you have to build. But given enough time and persistence you can get a CS degree even if you are not the sharpest (speaking as someone who is not the sharpest). To be honest in my own degree I didn't have much trouble with the content (besides a few math-heavy classes), just the workload. I remember me and my roommates study time, my time was usually implementing algorithms on my PC while theirs was usually pouring over text-books and solving differential equations. Although one of my roomates was a huge nerd who had to get max grades, he spent much more time than me studying. The other one spent about the same amount of time as me.