6 ms·

Saying that something hasn't evolved in almost 20 years is a... strange flex ? I suppose there's a need for everything.

brabel 2y ago
I appreciate something like that. It can mean one of two things: * it's abandoned. * it's good for what it does, why change it? I don't know, to be honest, in which of these most BSDs are. But I see very little reason for an Operating System's tools and utilities to have changed much since the early 2000's. Perhaps even since the 1990's. Sure, their implementations may have been significantly improved, and maybe they've got some new stuff (specially in things that do need to evolve, like crypto) but the overall user interface remains the same. I think we should start seeing change for the sake of change as a bug, not a feature.
- contingencies 2y ago
  it's good for what it does, why change it? Immediately, this quote came to mind: Those who don't understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. - Henry Spencer Alternatively, Just do what slack did with irc. 'Reinvent' it with a modern interface and some fixes. The mercurial masses will flock to the hot new platform, VC will shower you with adoration and cash, we'll tell stories about how you don't eat breakfast and only ever wear one sock. Everyone will emulate you and then you can come back around as a wealthy guru investor. - @more_corn Or the wise man yells at cloud version, It used to be the case that people were admonished to "not re-invent the wheel". We now live in an age that spends a lot of time "reinventing the flat tire!" The flat tires come from the reinventors often not being in the same league as the original inventors. This is a symptom of a "pop culture" where identity and participation are much more important than progress... - Alan Kay (2016) ... via https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup
nabla9 2y ago
Author talks about stability of the userland. OpenBSD is innovative, especially in all matters of security and stability. SROP, privilege separation and revocation, W^X, PIE, trapsleds, fork+exec separation. Removing weaknesses is evolution.
- saagarjha 2y ago
  Some of those are innovative. Some of those are risible. Alas, which is which?
  - cccbbbaaa 2y ago
    Here's a hint: the most innovative ones were not invented by OpenBSD.
transpute 2y ago
15 to 30 year lifespan of an average B2B computer appliance > Saying that something hasn't evolved in almost 20 years is a... strange flex Decades of recurring, non-evolving revenue vs. S-curve surfing. Decisions, decisions.
- daemin 2y ago
  With an unchanging system you could sit on the beach collecting the recurring revenue, or build new products and look for more customers. It's not as glamorous as trying to get a hyperscaling startup but there's a lot of money to be made doing boring things.
blackhaz 2y ago
Especially if you see other OSs actually devolving.
blueflow 2y ago
Enshittification is also happening for software. "We haven't changed in 20 years" equals "Our stuff is not shittified".

I appreciate something like that. It can mean one of two things: * it's abandoned. * it's good for what it does, why change it? I don't know, to be honest, in which of these most BSDs are. But I see very little reason for an Operating System's tools and utilities to have changed much since the early 2000's. Perhaps even since the 1990's. Sure, their implementations may have been significantly improved, and maybe they've got some new stuff (specially in things that do need to evolve, like crypto) but the overall user interface remains the same. I think we should start seeing change for the sake of change as a bug, not a feature.

contingencies 2y ago
it's good for what it does, why change it? Immediately, this quote came to mind: Those who don't understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. - Henry Spencer Alternatively, Just do what slack did with irc. 'Reinvent' it with a modern interface and some fixes. The mercurial masses will flock to the hot new platform, VC will shower you with adoration and cash, we'll tell stories about how you don't eat breakfast and only ever wear one sock. Everyone will emulate you and then you can come back around as a wealthy guru investor. - @more_corn Or the wise man yells at cloud version, It used to be the case that people were admonished to "not re-invent the wheel". We now live in an age that spends a lot of time "reinventing the flat tire!" The flat tires come from the reinventors often not being in the same league as the original inventors. This is a symptom of a "pop culture" where identity and participation are much more important than progress... - Alan Kay (2016) ... via https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup

nabla9 2y ago

Author talks about stability of the userland. OpenBSD is innovative, especially in all matters of security and stability. SROP, privilege separation and revocation, W^X, PIE, trapsleds, fork+exec separation. Removing weaknesses is evolution.

saagarjha 2y ago
Some of those are innovative. Some of those are risible. Alas, which is which?
- cccbbbaaa 2y ago
  Here's a hint: the most innovative ones were not invented by OpenBSD.

transpute 2y ago

15 to 30 year lifespan of an average B2B computer appliance > Saying that something hasn't evolved in almost 20 years is a... strange flex Decades of recurring, non-evolving revenue vs. S-curve surfing. Decisions, decisions.

daemin 2y ago
With an unchanging system you could sit on the beach collecting the recurring revenue, or build new products and look for more customers. It's not as glamorous as trying to get a hyperscaling startup but there's a lot of money to be made doing boring things.

blackhaz 2y ago

Especially if you see other OSs actually devolving.

blueflow 2y ago

Enshittification is also happening for software. "We haven't changed in 20 years" equals "Our stuff is not shittified".