4 ms·

Living in a somewhat rural area, I have no choice but to own a car. And since I have a family, I want to drive the safest, most practical car possible that can

Living in a somewhat rural area, I have no choice but to own a car. And since I have a family, I want to drive the safest, most practical car possible that can handle frequent needs like transporting children, pets, luggage, etc all at the same time. A "large" SUV checks all the boxes. If I lived in an urban area, I think it would be difficult and annoying to own a larger vehicle. Traffic, parking, narrow lanes, bikes, peds, etc would all make it pretty inconvenient. Many cities are charging vehicles to enter (like NYC). Maybe they could charge considerably more for larger vehicles or make it very low cost for small, compact cars?

bobthepanda 2y ago
The minivan and station wagon both used to be more common and were generally safer. We just need to close the SUV mileage loophole. A lot of modern SUVs and crossovers actually have poor capacities relative to their size.
- bequanna 2y ago
  Well, station wagons and minivans still exist—-we now just call them “crossover” SUVs. And I’ve looked at those options: the storage, seating and safety is just not the same as a large SUV. If you are using the word “safety” to mean safety for peds and bicyclists, I would likely agree with you that smaller cars are better for that. There are many blind spots on larger SUVs.
  - bobthepanda 2y ago
    For safety not only are they better for peds and bicyclists but also for other cars. Part of the reason why people are dogpiling into SUVs is that they destroy other cars in collisions, and so to remain safe in a road that is filling up with SUVs you must also be in one.
  - Qem 2y ago
    > If you are using the word “safety” to mean safety for peds and bicyclists, I would likely agree with you that smaller cars are better for that. For car drivers probably too, because today there is an "arms race" dynamic playing: while self.car < other.car: feel(unsafe) new_car = buy(car if car >= other.car) self.car = new_car feel(safe) smash(pedestrian) smash(cyclist) smash(other.car) Meanwhile everyone owning other.car is doing the same, so we are caught in a infinite loop and everyone ends worse and worse. A de-escalation is necessary.
- binary132 2y ago
  I’m curious where you source the claim that station wagons were safer than SUVs.
  - bobthepanda 2y ago
    it depends on how you're defining "safe" and it's hard to get comparisons in 2024 since SUVs have almost completely wiped out station wagons in a product in the US. Generally speaking though, there are a couple ways in which SUVs are less safe in certain conditions: * SUVs sit higher and have a taller center of gravity than station wagons and are more susceptible to rollovers: https://www.avrek.com/blog/how-does-a-rollover-happen-and-what-you-can-do-to-avoid-it/ https://www.avrek.com/blog/how-does-a-rollover-happen-and-wh... * SUVs are more dangerous to other road users because of how tall they are. If you are a pedestrian, cyclist, or sitting in a lower car, then the main part of an SUV is aimed higher at your torso or head. This also creates a self-fulfilling cycle where the only way to be safe against an SUV is to be in an SUV yourself. Road fatality rates have stalled in the US while in other countries they are decreasing, and a big portion of that is that pedestrian fatalities have increased by 68% since 2011. https://smartgrowthamerica.org/pedestrian-fatalities-at-historic-high/ https://smartgrowthamerica.org/pedestrian-fatalities-at-hist... SUVs represent a oversized proportion of the vehicles striking and killing pedestrians. https://www.codot.gov/safety/shift-into-safe-news/2022/august/study-suvs-light-trucks-pose-significant-risk-to-pedestrian-crashes-involving-children https://www.codot.gov/safety/shift-into-safe-news/2022/augus...
paulddraper 2y ago
A minivan checks all those boxes, and is cheaper to buy and operate. (You need an SUV for poorly maintained roads, or towing trailers.)

bobthepanda 2y ago

The minivan and station wagon both used to be more common and were generally safer. We just need to close the SUV mileage loophole. A lot of modern SUVs and crossovers actually have poor capacities relative to their size.

bequanna 2y ago
Well, station wagons and minivans still exist—-we now just call them “crossover” SUVs. And I’ve looked at those options: the storage, seating and safety is just not the same as a large SUV. If you are using the word “safety” to mean safety for peds and bicyclists, I would likely agree with you that smaller cars are better for that. There are many blind spots on larger SUVs.
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  For safety not only are they better for peds and bicyclists but also for other cars. Part of the reason why people are dogpiling into SUVs is that they destroy other cars in collisions, and so to remain safe in a road that is filling up with SUVs you must also be in one.
- Qem 2y ago
  > If you are using the word “safety” to mean safety for peds and bicyclists, I would likely agree with you that smaller cars are better for that. For car drivers probably too, because today there is an "arms race" dynamic playing: while self.car < other.car: feel(unsafe) new_car = buy(car if car >= other.car) self.car = new_car feel(safe) smash(pedestrian) smash(cyclist) smash(other.car) Meanwhile everyone owning other.car is doing the same, so we are caught in a infinite loop and everyone ends worse and worse. A de-escalation is necessary.
binary132 2y ago
I’m curious where you source the claim that station wagons were safer than SUVs.
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  it depends on how you're defining "safe" and it's hard to get comparisons in 2024 since SUVs have almost completely wiped out station wagons in a product in the US. Generally speaking though, there are a couple ways in which SUVs are less safe in certain conditions: * SUVs sit higher and have a taller center of gravity than station wagons and are more susceptible to rollovers: https://www.avrek.com/blog/how-does-a-rollover-happen-and-what-you-can-do-to-avoid-it/ https://www.avrek.com/blog/how-does-a-rollover-happen-and-wh... * SUVs are more dangerous to other road users because of how tall they are. If you are a pedestrian, cyclist, or sitting in a lower car, then the main part of an SUV is aimed higher at your torso or head. This also creates a self-fulfilling cycle where the only way to be safe against an SUV is to be in an SUV yourself. Road fatality rates have stalled in the US while in other countries they are decreasing, and a big portion of that is that pedestrian fatalities have increased by 68% since 2011. https://smartgrowthamerica.org/pedestrian-fatalities-at-historic-high/ https://smartgrowthamerica.org/pedestrian-fatalities-at-hist... SUVs represent a oversized proportion of the vehicles striking and killing pedestrians. https://www.codot.gov/safety/shift-into-safe-news/2022/august/study-suvs-light-trucks-pose-significant-risk-to-pedestrian-crashes-involving-children https://www.codot.gov/safety/shift-into-safe-news/2022/augus...

paulddraper 2y ago

A minivan checks all those boxes, and is cheaper to buy and operate. (You need an SUV for poorly maintained roads, or towing trailers.)