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> Sales don’t happen when benefits exceed price. I did not know this. Obviously the title and opening sentence aren’t meant to be taken literally or absolutely

by dahart 2y ago

> Sales don’t happen when benefits exceed price. I did not know this. Obviously the title and opening sentence aren’t meant to be taken literally or absolutely despite being phrased that way, since the author had sales before discovering FOMO as a strategy, and also since these statements aren’t true for all products. I can buy that FOMO helps sell a newsletter subscription where it’s hard to communicate value in the first place, and people are used to newsletters being free. FOMO isn’t what drives McDonald’s or gasoline or breakfast cereal though. Most things I purchase aren’t based on FOMO, but maybe a few optional things are here and there. I found the “ads eww” comment to be funny when what the author has discovered is an advertising technique, and one of the very techniques that earns and engenders the ‘eww’. Manipulating people works, but people don’t like knowing they’re being manipulated, especially if claims about missing out or about scarcity are inauthentic.

bbor 2y ago
Well put! I don’t see anything in there that’s a rejoinder to “ads ew” necessarily, tho; if there’s some actual scarcity then telling people about it is not advertising (marketing!) at all, but rather the job of an index, a search engine, a catalog, a govt PSA, etc. I don’t think there’s a single argument for advertising other than “manipulation can make individuals rich, and what’s good for the rich is good for society”. Which isn’t a very popular one to say out loud these days, especially in “woke” advertising giants like Google and LinkedIn…
csomar 2y ago
> “ads eww” I thought this was about Ads that AdBlocker was made for. I don't think they'll have turn a good ROI for a substack audience though.
schneems 2y ago
I sold a book (https://howtoopensource.dev/ https://howtoopensource.dev/) and did a *very* soft launch which performed so poorly I spent the next 6-9months building out full blown launch strategy. FOMO is used a lot as the term du-jour but it goes deeper than that: a sense of urgency. We relate FOMO to urgency because a lot of FOMO happens around events (missing a concert or conference, for example) but to me the key isn’t the fear, it’s the urgency. For my eventual launch I read a book aptly titled “Launch” which talks at length about building a sense of urgency, turning the sale into an event, and generating excitement. I offered a limited time, exclusive incentive with a hard deadline and it worked very well. That hits the fear and the urgency. From Kent: > How can I communicate what the company is missing out on While framed as FOMO, to me it’s good old value-proposition marketing. The book I linked above recommends focusing on a customer “transformation” story. Try to get potential customers to imagine what life would be like if ONLY they had your product. From this lens the FOMO is fear of missing out on being your best/better self. This part of my launch was really difficult. I wanted to talk about what the book teaches, how it stacks up against other books, why my petagogy is useful. It didn’t seem like my book would “turn a coder into a contributor” (by itself). But that’s exactly the outcome I wanted, and it’s the outcome my customers wanted. So, that’s how I sold it.
- dahart 2y ago
  > While framed as FOMO, to me it’s good old value-propositioned marketing. Right! Exactly, the value proposition is stating what you think the value is to the consumer, and when it aligns with what they really value then sales occur. The author made a clear distinction saying, “I naively assumed that people transacted when value exceeded price. I blindly pursued adding more value to this newsletter.” He’s talking about value from his own perspective rather than value from the customer’s perspective, like you did with listing the subjects and teaching methods in your book. I’ve made the same mistake trying to add what I think is valuable and talk about what I think is valuable, and have it lead to low sales, so I know from experience that good marketing is necessary and that good marketing can be difficult for engineers to learn, and that building it does not mean that they will come and buy it. Part of what I’m saying is you have to really understand the eww of advertising, why it’s there, where it comes from, and how to use it properly, and you have to be careful and figure out what the difference is between showing someone the value and lying to them, because sometimes the line is very gray and/or very thin.
- HWR_14 2y ago
  > It didn’t seem like my book would “turn a coder into a contributor” (by itself). But that’s exactly the outcome I wanted, and it’s the outcome my customers wanted. So, that’s how I sold it. Am I misreading your post or are bragging about selling your product by lying about what it can can do.
  - blitzar 2y ago
    > bragging about selling your product by lying about what it can can do Is there a billionaire past or present who didn't use this strategy?
    - HWR_14 2y ago
      Why is that relevant?
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
mathgeek 2y ago
> FOMO isn’t what drives McDonald’s or gasoline or breakfast cereal though. All three of those examples use FOMO to drive more sales though. Limited time offerings like the McRib/Happy Meal toys, “last gas for 100 miles”, and even cereals being “part of a balanced breakfast” (despite all the problems with that statement) are designed to trigger FOMO. It’s not the only strategy employed, but it is employed.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- dahart 2y ago
  Last gas for 100 miles is a safety issue in remote areas, it doesn’t drive significant gas sales, the signs are generally put up by the state not the gas stations, so that’s not an example of FOMO advertising. Neither is “part of a balanced breakfast”. That’s advertising, absolutely, but not a FOMO strategy. McDonald’s is using it sometimes, you’re right. I was originally thinking of basic items, burger and fries, but they do have seasonal items and limited time specials, so I’ll grant you that one and stand corrected.
riiii 2y ago
> Manipulating people works, but people don’t like knowing they’re being manipulated Agree. The best salesmen I've met have never overtly tried to sell me anything. They've been very knowledgeable about the product and they're much more having a conversation rather than throwing a sales pitch.
- gnicholas 2y ago
  Does this apply equally when selling (1) a known quantity for which a budget line item exists and (2) a product in a new category, like is often the case with startups?
  - riiii 2y ago
    My answer would be yes. But the latter is incredibly difficult. You need to sell the idea (and it's related emotions and usefulness) in addition to the product.
    - gnicholas 2y ago
      Any tips/books/etc.?

by dahart 2y ago

bbor 2y ago

Well put! I don’t see anything in there that’s a rejoinder to “ads ew” necessarily, tho; if there’s some actual scarcity then telling people about it is not advertising (marketing!) at all, but rather the job of an index, a search engine, a catalog, a govt PSA, etc. I don’t think there’s a single argument for advertising other than “manipulation can make individuals rich, and what’s good for the rich is good for society”. Which isn’t a very popular one to say out loud these days, especially in “woke” advertising giants like Google and LinkedIn…

csomar 2y ago

> “ads eww” I thought this was about Ads that AdBlocker was made for. I don't think they'll have turn a good ROI for a substack audience though.

schneems 2y ago

I sold a book (https://howtoopensource.dev/ https://howtoopensource.dev/) and did a *very* soft launch which performed so poorly I spent the next 6-9months building out full blown launch strategy. FOMO is used a lot as the term du-jour but it goes deeper than that: a sense of urgency. We relate FOMO to urgency because a lot of FOMO happens around events (missing a concert or conference, for example) but to me the key isn’t the fear, it’s the urgency. For my eventual launch I read a book aptly titled “Launch” which talks at length about building a sense of urgency, turning the sale into an event, and generating excitement. I offered a limited time, exclusive incentive with a hard deadline and it worked very well. That hits the fear and the urgency. From Kent: > How can I communicate what the company is missing out on While framed as FOMO, to me it’s good old value-proposition marketing. The book I linked above recommends focusing on a customer “transformation” story. Try to get potential customers to imagine what life would be like if ONLY they had your product. From this lens the FOMO is fear of missing out on being your best/better self. This part of my launch was really difficult. I wanted to talk about what the book teaches, how it stacks up against other books, why my petagogy is useful. It didn’t seem like my book would “turn a coder into a contributor” (by itself). But that’s exactly the outcome I wanted, and it’s the outcome my customers wanted. So, that’s how I sold it.

dahart 2y ago
> While framed as FOMO, to me it’s good old value-propositioned marketing. Right! Exactly, the value proposition is stating what you think the value is to the consumer, and when it aligns with what they really value then sales occur. The author made a clear distinction saying, “I naively assumed that people transacted when value exceeded price. I blindly pursued adding more value to this newsletter.” He’s talking about value from his own perspective rather than value from the customer’s perspective, like you did with listing the subjects and teaching methods in your book. I’ve made the same mistake trying to add what I think is valuable and talk about what I think is valuable, and have it lead to low sales, so I know from experience that good marketing is necessary and that good marketing can be difficult for engineers to learn, and that building it does not mean that they will come and buy it. Part of what I’m saying is you have to really understand the eww of advertising, why it’s there, where it comes from, and how to use it properly, and you have to be careful and figure out what the difference is between showing someone the value and lying to them, because sometimes the line is very gray and/or very thin.
HWR_14 2y ago
> It didn’t seem like my book would “turn a coder into a contributor” (by itself). But that’s exactly the outcome I wanted, and it’s the outcome my customers wanted. So, that’s how I sold it. Am I misreading your post or are bragging about selling your product by lying about what it can can do.
- blitzar 2y ago
  > bragging about selling your product by lying about what it can can do Is there a billionaire past or present who didn't use this strategy?
  - HWR_14 2y ago
    Why is that relevant?
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]

mathgeek 2y ago

> FOMO isn’t what drives McDonald’s or gasoline or breakfast cereal though. All three of those examples use FOMO to drive more sales though. Limited time offerings like the McRib/Happy Meal toys, “last gas for 100 miles”, and even cereals being “part of a balanced breakfast” (despite all the problems with that statement) are designed to trigger FOMO. It’s not the only strategy employed, but it is employed.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
dahart 2y ago
Last gas for 100 miles is a safety issue in remote areas, it doesn’t drive significant gas sales, the signs are generally put up by the state not the gas stations, so that’s not an example of FOMO advertising. Neither is “part of a balanced breakfast”. That’s advertising, absolutely, but not a FOMO strategy. McDonald’s is using it sometimes, you’re right. I was originally thinking of basic items, burger and fries, but they do have seasonal items and limited time specials, so I’ll grant you that one and stand corrected.

riiii 2y ago

> Manipulating people works, but people don’t like knowing they’re being manipulated Agree. The best salesmen I've met have never overtly tried to sell me anything. They've been very knowledgeable about the product and they're much more having a conversation rather than throwing a sales pitch.

gnicholas 2y ago
Does this apply equally when selling (1) a known quantity for which a budget line item exists and (2) a product in a new category, like is often the case with startups?
- riiii 2y ago
  My answer would be yes. But the latter is incredibly difficult. You need to sell the idea (and it's related emotions and usefulness) in addition to the product.
  - gnicholas 2y ago
    Any tips/books/etc.?