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That situation is quite different. The US is using its significant power and weight to coerce those non-US banks into compliance with FACTA. Those banks don't h

That situation is quite different. The US is using its significant power and weight to coerce those non-US banks into compliance with FACTA. Those banks don't have to comply, but they want to do business with the US and US companies, then they don't have much of a choice. It's not like they just made a law and now insisted it applies globally, which is what the EU did.

echoangle 2y ago
Isn’t it actually exactly the same? The website doesn’t have to comply (and many don’t), but if they want to do business in the EU, they have to. How is that different?
- DEADMINCE 2y ago
  No, it's not remotely the same. The US is using the fact that people want to do business with them to coerce compliance, and as written the law only applies to US persons. The EU claims the GDPR applies globally, regardless of if people want to do business with the EU, or even if people ever set foot in the EU. It's amusing nonsense.
mratsim 2y ago
Why is it different? People don't have to comply to GDPR but if they want to serve EU folks then they don't have a choice.
- DEADMINCE 2y ago
  The EU claims their law applies globally regardless of if people set foot in or do business in the EU. According to the EU, an EU citizen just needs to visit a site and the law applies, regardless of where the site is hosted. According to the EU, the GDPR applies to some small shop owner in China with a website that harvests all data it can that isn't advertising in the EU, courting EU citizens in any way, has no business with the EU, etc.
  - mratsim 2y ago
    According to the US, an US citizen just have to open a bank account anywhere in the world and the law applies, regardless of where the bank is hosted.
  - simonmysun 2y ago
    Once privacy is considered as a fundamental human right, everything makes sense. When an EU citizen visit a site and the site collects their data in an unbounded way, their privacy is violated and any goverment should be responsible of protecting its citizen. In my point of view, this is a difference of how much we define privacy as human right and what data are considered private.
    - DEADMINCE 2y ago
      > Once privacy is considered as a fundamental human right, everything makes sense. Does it? I agree it should be, and I want to work towards a better world also, but pretending you have jurisdiction when you clearly do not, doesn't seem helpful in any way.
      - simonmysun 2y ago
        I suppose it will be treated as other international jurisprudence. However it is indeed not practical for individuals.
belk 2y ago
it's effectively the same, small banks just shove you out of the building and refuse to open a bank account for you if FATCA applies to you, their compliance is through just not accepting US tax payers. This is a real issue that leaves US citizens only able to open accounts at bigger banks (with shittier services but enough budget to hire a FATCA compliance department)
- DEADMINCE 2y ago
  > it's effectively the same Nope. Not even close. Practically the GDPR law has no teeth at all because its claim of extraterritorial jurisdiction is nothing but nonsense. FATCA applies because the US has a carrot or stick to enforce it. Also, the US law as written is entirely reasonable and doesn't try to claim the law applies to US citizens anywhere in the world.
  - shkkmo 2y ago
    > US law as written is entirely reasonable and doesn't try to claim the law applies to US citizens anywhere in the world. It absolutely does. The USA has laws that govern what it's own citizens do abroad like. You aren't allowed to have sex with minors or pay bribes when abroad. The USA also recently passed a law that allows it to prosecute foreign officials who solicit bribes from USA entities. https://www.ropesgray.com/en/insights/alerts/2023/12/us-congress-passes-law-to-criminally-prosecute-corrupt-foreign-officials https://www.ropesgray.com/en/insights/alerts/2023/12/us-cong...
    - DEADMINCE 2y ago
      > It absolutely does. Absolutely, absolutely, it does not. The USA law is saying US law applies to US persons wherever they may be in the world. The EU law is saying EU laws applies to ANYONE in the world if an EU person interacts with them via the internet. You realize those two things are not the same, right?
      - bmicraft 2y ago

echoangle 2y ago

Isn’t it actually exactly the same? The website doesn’t have to comply (and many don’t), but if they want to do business in the EU, they have to. How is that different?

DEADMINCE 2y ago
No, it's not remotely the same. The US is using the fact that people want to do business with them to coerce compliance, and as written the law only applies to US persons. The EU claims the GDPR applies globally, regardless of if people want to do business with the EU, or even if people ever set foot in the EU. It's amusing nonsense.

mratsim 2y ago

Why is it different? People don't have to comply to GDPR but if they want to serve EU folks then they don't have a choice.

DEADMINCE 2y ago
The EU claims their law applies globally regardless of if people set foot in or do business in the EU. According to the EU, an EU citizen just needs to visit a site and the law applies, regardless of where the site is hosted. According to the EU, the GDPR applies to some small shop owner in China with a website that harvests all data it can that isn't advertising in the EU, courting EU citizens in any way, has no business with the EU, etc.
- mratsim 2y ago
  According to the US, an US citizen just have to open a bank account anywhere in the world and the law applies, regardless of where the bank is hosted.
- simonmysun 2y ago
  Once privacy is considered as a fundamental human right, everything makes sense. When an EU citizen visit a site and the site collects their data in an unbounded way, their privacy is violated and any goverment should be responsible of protecting its citizen. In my point of view, this is a difference of how much we define privacy as human right and what data are considered private.
  - DEADMINCE 2y ago
    > Once privacy is considered as a fundamental human right, everything makes sense. Does it? I agree it should be, and I want to work towards a better world also, but pretending you have jurisdiction when you clearly do not, doesn't seem helpful in any way.
    - simonmysun 2y ago
      I suppose it will be treated as other international jurisprudence. However it is indeed not practical for individuals.

belk 2y ago

it's effectively the same, small banks just shove you out of the building and refuse to open a bank account for you if FATCA applies to you, their compliance is through just not accepting US tax payers. This is a real issue that leaves US citizens only able to open accounts at bigger banks (with shittier services but enough budget to hire a FATCA compliance department)

DEADMINCE 2y ago
> it's effectively the same Nope. Not even close. Practically the GDPR law has no teeth at all because its claim of extraterritorial jurisdiction is nothing but nonsense. FATCA applies because the US has a carrot or stick to enforce it. Also, the US law as written is entirely reasonable and doesn't try to claim the law applies to US citizens anywhere in the world.
- shkkmo 2y ago
  > US law as written is entirely reasonable and doesn't try to claim the law applies to US citizens anywhere in the world. It absolutely does. The USA has laws that govern what it's own citizens do abroad like. You aren't allowed to have sex with minors or pay bribes when abroad. The USA also recently passed a law that allows it to prosecute foreign officials who solicit bribes from USA entities. https://www.ropesgray.com/en/insights/alerts/2023/12/us-congress-passes-law-to-criminally-prosecute-corrupt-foreign-officials https://www.ropesgray.com/en/insights/alerts/2023/12/us-cong...
  - DEADMINCE 2y ago
    > It absolutely does. Absolutely, absolutely, it does not. The USA law is saying US law applies to US persons wherever they may be in the world. The EU law is saying EU laws applies to ANYONE in the world if an EU person interacts with them via the internet. You realize those two things are not the same, right?
    - bmicraft 2y ago