5 ms·

It seems incredibly petty to me to exclude UK companies from this list. We left, yeah ok. But this says European alternatives and we're in Europe as far as I'm

by matt-p 2y ago

It seems incredibly petty to me to exclude UK companies from this list. We left, yeah ok. But this says European alternatives and we're in Europe as far as I'm aware.GDPR is enshrined in law and we've a EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement. You're missing out on a massive plethora of services, London's tech industry is one of if not the strongest in Europe.

scrollaway 2y ago
Trade agreements only get you so far.. The UK is also a member of five eyes, among other things, which is one of the reasons why someone might be seeking a “European alternative”.
- matt-p 2y ago
  Germany has 81 large US military bases, Italy has 26, UK has 14. Sorry but if you think your internet traffic isn't being tapped by the US regardless you're completely delusional. At least in the UK were probably not letting EU countries tap it too :')
p_l 2y ago
For legal purposes, including GDPR [1], UK is a "third country". Trade agreements do not change that - those that do, are listed on the site. [1] It currently has GDPR included in law, but there's nothing keeping it in law.
- matt-p 2y ago
  Genuinely I'd love to understand why this is an issue. This can trivially be solved contractually, indeed any UK tech company will have it in thier standard contract since they encounter it so often.
  - p_l 2y ago
    National law trumps corporate contracts, that's essentially the core of it. Similarly, GDPR gave teeth to pre-existing privacy laws in EU. Private contracts are nowhere near as enforceable, especially in terms of consequences - but the EU side of the contract will still be on the hook for legal consequences if UK company fails to uphold their side, or if UK changes a law that makes it incompatible with GDPR requirements (as in with US CLOUD act and the like).
    - matt-p 2y ago
      Yes, but a contract is under a country's law (which may or may not inherit some or all EU 'law'). For example a Portuguese company selling a service to a German one will be under Portuguese jurisdiction. Portugal "could" decide to unilaterally leave the EU and therefore GDPR tomorrow. But that's insanely unlikely. UK "could" decide to remove GDPR tomorrow. But that's just as unlikely. Tell me the difference between these two? Realistically a B2B contract should draw in as first party terms that all the relevant protections will be provided, confirm in compliance with GDPR (which UK has in law) if the UK removes it the protections still apply. That's more on security than just agreeing a contract with portugese supplier because 'they`re in the EU too'
      - matt-p 2y ago
        Also you would of thought the EU would of accepted the UKs request of bringing GDPR into scope of the trade agreement and therefore not making it a third country (which is insane as the UK has the exact same GDPR in Law with no intention of removing it, we could of codified that the UK would keep it inline with the EUs version and forgo/have to renegotiate it's trade deal if it removes it).
        p_l 2y ago
        You can't escape "third country" status with a trade deal, though. As in, this is base EU law. At best, you could get some agreement which would be accepted to treat UK as acceptable party for GDPR-conscious business, but you're still a third party, and navigating patchwork agreements is why some companies will want to deal with company completely in EU instead.

by matt-p 2y ago

scrollaway 2y ago

Trade agreements only get you so far.. The UK is also a member of five eyes, among other things, which is one of the reasons why someone might be seeking a “European alternative”.

matt-p 2y ago
Germany has 81 large US military bases, Italy has 26, UK has 14. Sorry but if you think your internet traffic isn't being tapped by the US regardless you're completely delusional. At least in the UK were probably not letting EU countries tap it too :')

p_l 2y ago

For legal purposes, including GDPR [1], UK is a "third country". Trade agreements do not change that - those that do, are listed on the site. [1] It currently has GDPR included in law, but there's nothing keeping it in law.

matt-p 2y ago
Genuinely I'd love to understand why this is an issue. This can trivially be solved contractually, indeed any UK tech company will have it in thier standard contract since they encounter it so often.
- p_l 2y ago
  National law trumps corporate contracts, that's essentially the core of it. Similarly, GDPR gave teeth to pre-existing privacy laws in EU. Private contracts are nowhere near as enforceable, especially in terms of consequences - but the EU side of the contract will still be on the hook for legal consequences if UK company fails to uphold their side, or if UK changes a law that makes it incompatible with GDPR requirements (as in with US CLOUD act and the like).
  - matt-p 2y ago
    Yes, but a contract is under a country's law (which may or may not inherit some or all EU 'law'). For example a Portuguese company selling a service to a German one will be under Portuguese jurisdiction. Portugal "could" decide to unilaterally leave the EU and therefore GDPR tomorrow. But that's insanely unlikely. UK "could" decide to remove GDPR tomorrow. But that's just as unlikely. Tell me the difference between these two? Realistically a B2B contract should draw in as first party terms that all the relevant protections will be provided, confirm in compliance with GDPR (which UK has in law) if the UK removes it the protections still apply. That's more on security than just agreeing a contract with portugese supplier because 'they`re in the EU too'
    - matt-p 2y ago
      Also you would of thought the EU would of accepted the UKs request of bringing GDPR into scope of the trade agreement and therefore not making it a third country (which is insane as the UK has the exact same GDPR in Law with no intention of removing it, we could of codified that the UK would keep it inline with the EUs version and forgo/have to renegotiate it's trade deal if it removes it).
      - p_l 2y ago
        You can't escape "third country" status with a trade deal, though. As in, this is base EU law. At best, you could get some agreement which would be accepted to treat UK as acceptable party for GDPR-conscious business, but you're still a third party, and navigating patchwork agreements is why some companies will want to deal with company completely in EU instead.