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Wiring programs together on a 2D canvas is nice when the problem being solved is amenable to it (signal processing, pipelines, etc.). But, a typical general pur

Wiring programs together on a 2D canvas is nice when the problem being solved is amenable to it (signal processing, pipelines, etc.). But, a typical general purpose program would look like a breadboard from hell, no matter how hard one tries to organize nicely organize it.

fsloth 2y ago
There are some domains where it’s really helpful to empower subject expert to develop their domain specific data flow, without them needing to learn the ins and outs of a language like c#. See for example Grasshopper for parametric architecture, or the node system in Blender. OFC maintainability of a spaghetti node system is borderline impossible so there are constraints and tradeoffs. Accessibility to non-software engineer domain talent is the main attraction imho.
almost 2y ago
The solution to certain types of programs not being suitable to write in it is just… don’t. I did various bits of freelance work on VVVV projects a while ago. Often writing C++ or C# code to interface with VVVV. Even when I was mostly stuck in the guts of the C++ bit having a test rig in VVVV was a lovely way to interact with and test code. As far as I remember it’s absolutely simplicity to create a node that contains custom C# code (double click it and an editor window pops up). I definitely remember doing that for bits of logic that seemed easier to express that way. I saw people build very cool stuff in it back then. If you’re building interactive visuals the “always live” way of working seems to allow some pretty fast iteration. Definitely saw things built in it that maybe would have been better built in other ways, but that’s just natural when you have people highly skilled in one tool or language.
jayd16 2y ago
I don't really agree that visuals immediately makes things messier but I do wish these systems leveraged scoped areas a bit better to reduce pin visual noise. That said, you just have to treat it like code and build up good patterns and styles to keep things tidy.

fsloth 2y ago

There are some domains where it’s really helpful to empower subject expert to develop their domain specific data flow, without them needing to learn the ins and outs of a language like c#. See for example Grasshopper for parametric architecture, or the node system in Blender. OFC maintainability of a spaghetti node system is borderline impossible so there are constraints and tradeoffs. Accessibility to non-software engineer domain talent is the main attraction imho.

almost 2y ago

The solution to certain types of programs not being suitable to write in it is just… don’t. I did various bits of freelance work on VVVV projects a while ago. Often writing C++ or C# code to interface with VVVV. Even when I was mostly stuck in the guts of the C++ bit having a test rig in VVVV was a lovely way to interact with and test code. As far as I remember it’s absolutely simplicity to create a node that contains custom C# code (double click it and an editor window pops up). I definitely remember doing that for bits of logic that seemed easier to express that way. I saw people build very cool stuff in it back then. If you’re building interactive visuals the “always live” way of working seems to allow some pretty fast iteration. Definitely saw things built in it that maybe would have been better built in other ways, but that’s just natural when you have people highly skilled in one tool or language.

jayd16 2y ago

I don't really agree that visuals immediately makes things messier but I do wish these systems leveraged scoped areas a bit better to reduce pin visual noise. That said, you just have to treat it like code and build up good patterns and styles to keep things tidy.