5 ms·

Depends on the other person, but "gets hit by a bus or abducted by aliens" or some other (movie) trope doesn't sound too bad if it's an informal discussion.

by devsda 2y ago

serial_dev 2y ago
I dislike the "hit by the bus" not because it hypothetically kills a team mate, but because it implies that if one of us dies, the key worry of the management is who left who knows how to deploy the foo-banana service. This phrase is a reminder that nobody would care if you died apart from the fact that only you know how to do x and y. "Abducted by an alien" is so absurd, it takes away all that and replaces it with something potentially fun and an experience of a lifetime. I also very much prefer the lottery example, and the fact that someone on HN would still do a handover doesn't change that fact.
- Ma8ee 2y ago
  > the key worry of the management is who left who knows how to deploy the foo-banana service. While it might be uncomfortable to be reminded of, it is in most cases true. The company isn’t your family or your friends, and most managers adhere to the doctrine that the single important responsibility of the company is to create value for the stock holders.
- wegfawefgawefg 2y ago
  Not that I am trying to make you upset, but I personally find this level of sensetivity in people annoying. Life and death metaphors are my right to enjoy and share irreverently as the mortal being I am.
  - arcanemachiner 2y ago
    I died reading this comment.
    - bombela 2y ago
      But did you hand over your knowledge first?
  - mnsc 2y ago
    So you would be OK if I used "abducted and gang raped for so long that you come out seemingly alive and physically intact but your mind has broke and you enter a catatonic state and can't do a handover" as an example? Because if you are not one of those "sensitive people" you should be able to focus on the "can't do a handover" part of the scenario and not get caught up in the gruesome part? And before you ask, yes I enjoy being overly graphic like this on the pseudonumoyous internet to exaggerate my points but I wouldn't do this irl. That is hypocritical of me.
    - mirekrusin 2y ago
      Depends if aliens were attractive?
      - mnsc 2y ago
        Yeah I realize that "abducted" could suggest aliens, I was thinking more along the lines of Mexican drug cartel style abduction where your raping and being left alive is a wake up call to your partner in the police force that has turned the wrong stones. And the dudes doing the raping is not pretty. But the point is you are not able to do a proper handover, remember?
        mirekrusin 2y ago
        Why do you feel the need to go into details? "bus factor" is well known concept, it doesn't focus on details how the head disintegrates etc.
        mnsc 2y ago
        See my other reply...
        skeeter2020 2y ago
        The fact that you only respond like this anonymously should answer your original question/not-a-question. from a more practical perspective: No, because you're replacing a well-understood metaphor with something that is unknown, juvenile and stupid, removing the value we get from shared language constructs.
  - serial_dev 2y ago
    You can do whatever you want, I'm just sharing if my manager says "we won't know how to fix a bug in the xyz service if you were hit and killed by the bus", my response will be "I don't really give a f what happens at this stupid company after I die". Take it like this to understand that mine was aimed to be constructive criticism: Stop reminding the people who work at your stupid company, doing all your stupid scrum bs ceremonies that if they died and left the wife and children behind, you would be really worried about Tom needing two days to fix a bug in the iOS watch application, whereas it would take you only two hours. Again, you are free to do whatever you want, but if you keep reminding me that none of this bs what I'm doing here really matters to me, don't be surprised that I quit as soon as possible.
    - skeeter2020 2y ago
      but the manager is obviously (unless they are very, very bad) using a metaphor (that you don't like). By responding literally, what you're really saying is "I don't really give a f what happens at this stupid company after I LEAVE MY CURRENT RESPONSIBILITIES" regardless of why. It sounds like you have extreme trust issues with your manager if they can't make a (pretty benign) verbal mis-step with you, without this sort of response, and your follow up suggests you're in a really bad space. I can't believe it's not visible and leaking into other aspects of your work and interactions.
      - serial_dev 2y ago
        I'm okay now, thank you. I did have a previous workplace, though, where they couldn't stop yapping about the bus factor and I disliked that phrase because it kept reminding me that one day I die and am wasting one more hour of my living days in a pointless retrospective that will have no positive effect on anything.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - lelanthran 2y ago
      > You can do whatever you want, I'm just sharing if my manager says "we won't know how to fix a bug in the xyz service if you were hit and killed by the bus", my response will be "I don't really give a f what happens at this stupid company after I die". So? The company isn't going to let all their employees starve to death out of compassion for the one that did die. They know you don't give a fuck about what happens after you're dead, but they're still alive, and they have to keep things running so that they can continue eating. Telling people that you don't care what effect your death has on them is a pretty good way to indicate how selfish you are.
- yakshaving_jgt 2y ago
  > This phrase is a reminder that nobody would care if you died I don’t agree that the phrase implies that at all.
- tome 2y ago
  > This phrase is a reminder that nobody would care if you died apart from the fact that only you know how to do x and y. An alternative interpretation is "we have to keep doing x and y to earn our living, and it's doubly difficult because not only did you know how to do them but we're all having difficulty coping with your passing".
- JaumeGreen 2y ago
  People would care at a personal level, but the show must go on. I had to take a sudden leave the week before, and my coworkers, and boss cared at a personal level. And while most of my tasks were taken care of by them some weren't, and I had to rush Monday morning when I got back. This talk is not about personal feelings, even though it could include "do a memorial for the lost person", but it's about all the needed work that must go on on any scenario. You should understand that people should keep going on their lifes once you are not there, and that is good. If they think kindly of you after your passing depends on your relationship during life, not on any company preparation scenario.
- rrr_oh_man 2y ago
  > it implies that if one of us dies, the key worry of the management is who left who knows how to deploy the foo-banana service Story from this week: Manager at large-ish IT support company, visibly distraught, tells their manager that one of her direct reports got cancer. Response: "Oh, and I thought something bad happened, like the direct report quit."
  - manfre 2y ago
    Sorry you have to work with a toxic manager.
    - jpc0 2y ago
      Got cancer ranges from will be out of office a few times a month for a few months to a year through to won't be here next month. You are reading a lot out of words read on an internet screen. This manager may very well be toxic, they may also just not be able to express emotion in the same way and very well went above and beyond putting everything in place for said employee to receive all the medical support they need, mental and physical. We don't know and for all we know OP is in a bad space and completely misread the situation. This whole comment is devil's advocate, you can make the same argument for the exact opposite and of course your personal experience matters but leave the airing of dirty laundry out of public forums and if I do the same I encourage anyone to call me out on it.
- bluGill 2y ago
  if there is a backup plan then management can care about your death. If there isn't one and you die they can't care or enough to even attend your funeral as neeping things running will consume them.
- coldtea 2y ago
  >because it implies that if one of us dies, the key worry of the management is who left who knows how to deploy the foo-banana service. That will exactly be the key worry of the management. We've had team members lost like that - and that was the worry. They'll still feel sorry, say their condolensces, and might even go to the funeral, but in the end, the work continues - almost immediately.

Depends on the other person, but "gets hit by a bus or abducted by aliens" or some other (movie) trope doesn't sound too bad if it's an informal discussion.

by devsda 2y ago

Depends on the other person, but "gets hit by a bus or abducted by aliens" or some other (movie) trope doesn't sound too bad if it's an informal discussion.

serial_dev 2y ago

I dislike the "hit by the bus" not because it hypothetically kills a team mate, but because it implies that if one of us dies, the key worry of the management is who left who knows how to deploy the foo-banana service. This phrase is a reminder that nobody would care if you died apart from the fact that only you know how to do x and y. "Abducted by an alien" is so absurd, it takes away all that and replaces it with something potentially fun and an experience of a lifetime. I also very much prefer the lottery example, and the fact that someone on HN would still do a handover doesn't change that fact.

Ma8ee 2y ago
> the key worry of the management is who left who knows how to deploy the foo-banana service. While it might be uncomfortable to be reminded of, it is in most cases true. The company isn’t your family or your friends, and most managers adhere to the doctrine that the single important responsibility of the company is to create value for the stock holders.
wegfawefgawefg 2y ago
Not that I am trying to make you upset, but I personally find this level of sensetivity in people annoying. Life and death metaphors are my right to enjoy and share irreverently as the mortal being I am.
- arcanemachiner 2y ago
  I died reading this comment.
  - bombela 2y ago
    But did you hand over your knowledge first?
- mnsc 2y ago
  So you would be OK if I used "abducted and gang raped for so long that you come out seemingly alive and physically intact but your mind has broke and you enter a catatonic state and can't do a handover" as an example? Because if you are not one of those "sensitive people" you should be able to focus on the "can't do a handover" part of the scenario and not get caught up in the gruesome part? And before you ask, yes I enjoy being overly graphic like this on the pseudonumoyous internet to exaggerate my points but I wouldn't do this irl. That is hypocritical of me.
  - mirekrusin 2y ago
    Depends if aliens were attractive?
    - mnsc 2y ago
      Yeah I realize that "abducted" could suggest aliens, I was thinking more along the lines of Mexican drug cartel style abduction where your raping and being left alive is a wake up call to your partner in the police force that has turned the wrong stones. And the dudes doing the raping is not pretty. But the point is you are not able to do a proper handover, remember?
      - mirekrusin 2y ago
        Why do you feel the need to go into details? "bus factor" is well known concept, it doesn't focus on details how the head disintegrates etc.
        mnsc 2y ago
        See my other reply...
      - skeeter2020 2y ago
        The fact that you only respond like this anonymously should answer your original question/not-a-question. from a more practical perspective: No, because you're replacing a well-understood metaphor with something that is unknown, juvenile and stupid, removing the value we get from shared language constructs.
- serial_dev 2y ago
  You can do whatever you want, I'm just sharing if my manager says "we won't know how to fix a bug in the xyz service if you were hit and killed by the bus", my response will be "I don't really give a f what happens at this stupid company after I die". Take it like this to understand that mine was aimed to be constructive criticism: Stop reminding the people who work at your stupid company, doing all your stupid scrum bs ceremonies that if they died and left the wife and children behind, you would be really worried about Tom needing two days to fix a bug in the iOS watch application, whereas it would take you only two hours. Again, you are free to do whatever you want, but if you keep reminding me that none of this bs what I'm doing here really matters to me, don't be surprised that I quit as soon as possible.
  - skeeter2020 2y ago
    but the manager is obviously (unless they are very, very bad) using a metaphor (that you don't like). By responding literally, what you're really saying is "I don't really give a f what happens at this stupid company after I LEAVE MY CURRENT RESPONSIBILITIES" regardless of why. It sounds like you have extreme trust issues with your manager if they can't make a (pretty benign) verbal mis-step with you, without this sort of response, and your follow up suggests you're in a really bad space. I can't believe it's not visible and leaking into other aspects of your work and interactions.
    - serial_dev 2y ago
      I'm okay now, thank you. I did have a previous workplace, though, where they couldn't stop yapping about the bus factor and I disliked that phrase because it kept reminding me that one day I die and am wasting one more hour of my living days in a pointless retrospective that will have no positive effect on anything.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
  - lelanthran 2y ago
    > You can do whatever you want, I'm just sharing if my manager says "we won't know how to fix a bug in the xyz service if you were hit and killed by the bus", my response will be "I don't really give a f what happens at this stupid company after I die". So? The company isn't going to let all their employees starve to death out of compassion for the one that did die. They know you don't give a fuck about what happens after you're dead, but they're still alive, and they have to keep things running so that they can continue eating. Telling people that you don't care what effect your death has on them is a pretty good way to indicate how selfish you are.
yakshaving_jgt 2y ago
> This phrase is a reminder that nobody would care if you died I don’t agree that the phrase implies that at all.
tome 2y ago
> This phrase is a reminder that nobody would care if you died apart from the fact that only you know how to do x and y. An alternative interpretation is "we have to keep doing x and y to earn our living, and it's doubly difficult because not only did you know how to do them but we're all having difficulty coping with your passing".
JaumeGreen 2y ago
People would care at a personal level, but the show must go on. I had to take a sudden leave the week before, and my coworkers, and boss cared at a personal level. And while most of my tasks were taken care of by them some weren't, and I had to rush Monday morning when I got back. This talk is not about personal feelings, even though it could include "do a memorial for the lost person", but it's about all the needed work that must go on on any scenario. You should understand that people should keep going on their lifes once you are not there, and that is good. If they think kindly of you after your passing depends on your relationship during life, not on any company preparation scenario.
rrr_oh_man 2y ago
> it implies that if one of us dies, the key worry of the management is who left who knows how to deploy the foo-banana service Story from this week: Manager at large-ish IT support company, visibly distraught, tells their manager that one of her direct reports got cancer. Response: "Oh, and I thought something bad happened, like the direct report quit."
- manfre 2y ago
  Sorry you have to work with a toxic manager.
  - jpc0 2y ago
    Got cancer ranges from will be out of office a few times a month for a few months to a year through to won't be here next month. You are reading a lot out of words read on an internet screen. This manager may very well be toxic, they may also just not be able to express emotion in the same way and very well went above and beyond putting everything in place for said employee to receive all the medical support they need, mental and physical. We don't know and for all we know OP is in a bad space and completely misread the situation. This whole comment is devil's advocate, you can make the same argument for the exact opposite and of course your personal experience matters but leave the airing of dirty laundry out of public forums and if I do the same I encourage anyone to call me out on it.
bluGill 2y ago
if there is a backup plan then management can care about your death. If there isn't one and you die they can't care or enough to even attend your funeral as neeping things running will consume them.
coldtea 2y ago
>because it implies that if one of us dies, the key worry of the management is who left who knows how to deploy the foo-banana service. That will exactly be the key worry of the management. We've had team members lost like that - and that was the worry. They'll still feel sorry, say their condolensces, and might even go to the funeral, but in the end, the work continues - almost immediately.