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Isn’t installation costs like frames, transportation and labor makes it irrelevant now?

by szundi 2y ago

szvsw 2y ago
Lots of discussion of this in other comments in this thread, but at least theoretically, for a system of the same size, a change from 20 to 25% efficiency would reduce: the number of frames to manufacture, the weight of the transported goods, the number of panels needed to be installed, and the space needed all of which do plausibly reduce the total cost and time to deploy, no? That change is itself a 25% performance improvement (over the 20% baseline), meaning you need significantly less space and potentially weight/labor to install. Obviously we aren’t making that jump all at once.
jillesvangurp 2y ago
No, those are just the next cost to decimate. And from a technical point of view rather low hanging fruit. Here in Germany the government recently approved incentives for balcony solar. These are cheap panels that you hang (zip ties) from your balcony railing and then plug into a wall socket. No need for approval. These things are exempt from rules intended to protect the look of buildings. The idea is that that puts a little bit of power on the wires in your home and that that is enough for things like your fridge to run off. It partially runs of your solar instead of grid power and lowers your bills a bit. Even a few hundred wh of capacity can already make a difference. You can level up the experience with a portable battery. Of course don't expect miracles from setups like this but if the cost is low enough, why not? Why do I mention this: no professional installers involved at all. You order these things on Amazon or wherever, plug them, in and done. You can get a battery to go with them as well. A friend of mine got himself some panels and he's definitely not an electrician. His balcony is tiny and partially in the shade. I doubt it's very effective. But it didn't cost him an arm and a leg. There's no good technical reason for bigger solar setups to be much more difficult. You can get setups for your garden shed, country house, boat, etc. and it's all relatively easy and straightforward DIY stuff. It's only when these things get connected to the electrical grid and installed on roofs that a lot of rules start applying and a lot of bureaucracy kicks in. Often for good reason like fire safety. But it's gotten way out of hand in a few countries and the cost bares no relationship to the complexity of the problem.
- euroderf 2y ago
  This sounds like a nice way to get your feet wet. Got a pointer or two to English-accessible descriptions or products ?

Isn’t installation costs like frames, transportation and labor makes it irrelevant now?

by szundi 2y ago

Isn’t installation costs like frames, transportation and labor makes it irrelevant now?

Lots of discussion of this in other comments in this thread, but at least theoretically, for a system of the same size, a change from 20 to 25% efficiency would reduce: the number of frames to manufacture, the weight of the transported goods, the number of panels needed to be installed, and the space needed all of which do plausibly reduce the total cost and time to deploy, no? That change is itself a 25% performance improvement (over the 20% baseline), meaning you need significantly less space and potentially weight/labor to install. Obviously we aren’t making that jump all at once.

jillesvangurp 2y ago

No, those are just the next cost to decimate. And from a technical point of view rather low hanging fruit. Here in Germany the government recently approved incentives for balcony solar. These are cheap panels that you hang (zip ties) from your balcony railing and then plug into a wall socket. No need for approval. These things are exempt from rules intended to protect the look of buildings. The idea is that that puts a little bit of power on the wires in your home and that that is enough for things like your fridge to run off. It partially runs of your solar instead of grid power and lowers your bills a bit. Even a few hundred wh of capacity can already make a difference. You can level up the experience with a portable battery. Of course don't expect miracles from setups like this but if the cost is low enough, why not? Why do I mention this: no professional installers involved at all. You order these things on Amazon or wherever, plug them, in and done. You can get a battery to go with them as well. A friend of mine got himself some panels and he's definitely not an electrician. His balcony is tiny and partially in the shade. I doubt it's very effective. But it didn't cost him an arm and a leg. There's no good technical reason for bigger solar setups to be much more difficult. You can get setups for your garden shed, country house, boat, etc. and it's all relatively easy and straightforward DIY stuff. It's only when these things get connected to the electrical grid and installed on roofs that a lot of rules start applying and a lot of bureaucracy kicks in. Often for good reason like fire safety. But it's gotten way out of hand in a few countries and the cost bares no relationship to the complexity of the problem.

euroderf 2y ago
This sounds like a nice way to get your feet wet. Got a pointer or two to English-accessible descriptions or products ?