3 ms·

Right, it's ironic we spent 30 years fighting piracy and then suddenly corporations start doing it and now it's suddenly ok.

ben_w 2y ago
For me, the irony is the opposite side of the same coin, 30 years of "information wants to be free" and "copyright infringement isn't piracy" and "if you don't want to be indexed, use robots.txt"… …and then suddenly OpenAI are evil villains, and at least some of the people denounced them for copyright infringement are, in the same post, adamant that the solution is to force the model weights to become public domain.
- bee_rider 2y ago
  The deal of the internet has always been: send me what you want and I’ll render it however I want. This includes feeding it into AI bots now. I don’t love being on the same side as these “AI” snakeoil salesmen, but they are following the rules of the road. Robots.txt is just a voluntary thing. We’re going to see more and more of the internet shut off by technical means instead, which is a bummer. But on the bright side it might kill off the ad based model. Silver linings and all that.
- int_19h 2y ago
  I broadly agree with you, but I don't see what's contradictory about the solution of model weights becoming public domain. When it comes to piracy, the people who have viewed it as ethical on the grounds that "information wants to be free" generally also drew the line at profiting from it: copying an MP3 and giving it to your friend or even a complete stranger is ethical, charging a fee for that (above and beyond what it costs you to make a copy) is not. From that perspective, what OpenAI is doing is evil not because they are infringing on everyone's copyright, but that they are profiting from it.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    To me, it's like trying to "solve The Pirate Bay" by making all the stuff they share public domain. But thank you for sharing your perspective, I appreciate that.
- cyanydeez 2y ago
  Evil villains to individuals, if what they were doing was actually open. Then sure, but they're getting a pass because of capitalism and dcma was getting that same pass.
- ysofunny 2y ago
  but information wants to be free I say this given what I understand information to be information is about knowledge, what use is knowledge that nobody can know? useless, hence it must be the case that information wants to be copied everywhere it can, freely; for that is the essence of being information, being known. information wants to be famous

ben_w 2y ago

For me, the irony is the opposite side of the same coin, 30 years of "information wants to be free" and "copyright infringement isn't piracy" and "if you don't want to be indexed, use robots.txt"… …and then suddenly OpenAI are evil villains, and at least some of the people denounced them for copyright infringement are, in the same post, adamant that the solution is to force the model weights to become public domain.

bee_rider 2y ago
The deal of the internet has always been: send me what you want and I’ll render it however I want. This includes feeding it into AI bots now. I don’t love being on the same side as these “AI” snakeoil salesmen, but they are following the rules of the road. Robots.txt is just a voluntary thing. We’re going to see more and more of the internet shut off by technical means instead, which is a bummer. But on the bright side it might kill off the ad based model. Silver linings and all that.
int_19h 2y ago
I broadly agree with you, but I don't see what's contradictory about the solution of model weights becoming public domain. When it comes to piracy, the people who have viewed it as ethical on the grounds that "information wants to be free" generally also drew the line at profiting from it: copying an MP3 and giving it to your friend or even a complete stranger is ethical, charging a fee for that (above and beyond what it costs you to make a copy) is not. From that perspective, what OpenAI is doing is evil not because they are infringing on everyone's copyright, but that they are profiting from it.
- ben_w 2y ago
  To me, it's like trying to "solve The Pirate Bay" by making all the stuff they share public domain. But thank you for sharing your perspective, I appreciate that.
cyanydeez 2y ago
Evil villains to individuals, if what they were doing was actually open. Then sure, but they're getting a pass because of capitalism and dcma was getting that same pass.
ysofunny 2y ago
but information wants to be free I say this given what I understand information to be information is about knowledge, what use is knowledge that nobody can know? useless, hence it must be the case that information wants to be copied everywhere it can, freely; for that is the essence of being information, being known. information wants to be famous