6 ms·

Gittip - Set up recurring tips to people who do great work.

32 points by jordanmessina 14y ago

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
lazerwalker 14y ago
I love the idea, but I'm not so keen on the name. The mission statement gives examples of how this is a great idea for musicians, coffee shop owners, and other generally smart people ("genius grants for the rest of us"). On the other hand: the name, the required GitHub authentication, and the list of suggested tippees all strongly imply that this is solely for programmers. This says to me that the grand plan is to start out by focusing on programers (which makes sense, since it's a group of people who are on the whole really good at recognizing and rewarding people and projects that make their jobs easier), and to eventually expand from there. The problem with this is that 'Gittip' is an incredibly technically-focused name; it makes perfect sense in context of tipping your favorite GitHub contributors, but not so much when your average non-engineer Joe wants to give money to the guy who makes his coffee every morning.
- jforrest 14y ago
  Does it matter? "Regular" people won't pick up on the reference to git, but it's still a nice short domain name, easy to spell and pronounce, and git is a slang spelling for get. I think the name works well.
  - jordanmessina 14y ago
    Git is also British slang for stupid. Like all Torvalds' software, he names it after himself :) I think you're right. It's a good domain name and "regular" people won't pick up on the reference and won't really care regardless.
    - gmac 14y ago
      Git is also British slang for stupid. In my book, not exactly. It's more like the mildest possible term of abuse. You could generally get away with calling someone a git to their face and in front of their grandmother. Assuming they'd done something tricksy or cheeky or grumpy.
  - whit537 14y ago
    What he said. :-)
- whit537 14y ago
  You know, I thought the same thing. The idea started as a tipjar for Github and I bought Gittip.com, but then I realized it was much bigger, so I decided to use Logstown.com, a domain I already own. But then I was talking to my bro-in-law this past weekend, a non-technical musician, and he was like "Logstown makes me think I'm taking a dump. I like Gittip a lot better." So I renamed it back. He has no idea what git and github are, so the name gittip to him is just a nice, symmetrical name that has "tip" in it and evocations of "gift." Go figure. Look at the way that "bit" and "wiki" have evolved beyond BitTorrent and the WikiWikiWeb. I console myself by hoping that with gittip, the same is maybe happening to "git."
  - whit537 14y ago
    I mean, it already started happening with github.
  - lazerwalker 14y ago
    Fair enough! The main thing I'd worry about is people mis-hearing the name and trying to go to either gettip.com or gifttip.com, but it's very likely that I'm giving people too little credit. That wouldn't be a problem if 'git' enters the non-technical zeitgeist, but that's admittedly a pretty big 'if'.
  - jmathai 14y ago
    > [Insert name] makes me think I'm taking a dump. That's about as good of feedback as you can ask for.
    - whit537 14y ago
      :D
whitmo 14y ago
Kickass!
zalew 14y ago
From the name I thought it's about sending tips to someone (like tips & tricks) how he could improve his code via some git pull request or something.
albertsun 14y ago
It appears some of the people who you can tip on the site actually had the tip jars set up for them without their knowledge. I think this was on HN before about why that isn't cool. http://krisstraub.com/2011/11/20/kachingle-and-the-transgression-of-opt-out/ http://krisstraub.com/2011/11/20/kachingle-and-the-transgres...
- whit537 14y ago
  Thanks for the link. Reading now ...
  - whit537 14y ago
    First off: Yes. The premise is that you can tip people without their knowledge, "crowd-sourced genius grants." https://www.gittip.com/about/ https://www.gittip.com/about/ I see a few differences with Kachinga: - With Gittip, recipients receive the full face value of their tips. The donor is responsible for credit card fees. - The fees are minimal: $0.10 + 3.9%. Right now I'm using Samurai for payments, and they charge me $0.10 + 2.3%. My margins are thin. - My margins are not going to be "my" margins. If this gets traction, we're going to organize it as a cooperative, not a corporation. The plan is for everyone who tips through the site to be a member of the cooperative, the purpose of which will be for the escrow of gifts to individuals. - Gittip tipjars are tied to people, not companies or websites (you can currently send tips to Github organization accounts, but that's ticketed to fix: https://github.com/whit537/www.gittip.com/issues/4 https://github.com/whit537/www.gittip.com/issues/4). I can imagine changing that but for now it's designed for people, natural persons.
- carols10cents 14y ago
  What if you could pledge a tip to someone but your card wouldn't actually be charged until they accepted?
  - whit537 14y ago
    Hmmm ... I imagined money accumulating over time until it was significant. Then finding out about it would be like getting a call that you won a genius grant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacArthur_Fellows_Program http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacArthur_Fellows_Program I could see this as a possible compromise if opt-out turns out to really suck as bad as with Kachinga.
rys 14y ago
Do you really think the tips should be recurring to the same person every week, rather than also having a one off option? Also, once you've started tipping someone, it's possible to stop?
- whit537 14y ago
  a) Eating isn't a one-off option. Expenses are recurring so income must be too. I can imagine a one-off option down the road. b) Yes, it's trivial to stop. And because tips are anonymous, there's no social awkwardness to stopping a tip.
  - rys 14y ago
    Of course eating isn't a one-off option, but it's highly unlikely that anyone will be using income from this to make ends meet. Mirroring the tip analogy offline, I don't go into my favourite restaurant and tip the service staff there every week, even if I haven't eaten; it only happens if I eat there. It seems to me that one-off tips will be a heavily requested thing at least. Great idea, I hope it really takes off.
    - whit537 14y ago
      Yeah, you're probably right. https://github.com/whit537/www.gittip.com/issues/5 https://github.com/whit537/www.gittip.com/issues/5
devfuel 14y ago
Is an interesting idea. Presumably taxes are the responsibility of the recipient when they "withdraw"? Also, would it be appropriate to have a widget? Includes stuff like: -"Hey. Here is how you can support this work" -Gittip Overview Link -Github handle -Public income numbers Or is that too "gimme"? Is this meant to be more of a "for hackers by hackers" thing? Or more mainstream?
- whit537 14y ago
  Gifts don't count as income in the US. There's a gift tax on the donor, but that doesn't kick in until you give $13,000 per person per year. Not sure about other countries. Widget: Heck yeah! Wanna write one? :-) Intended to be mainstream, starting w/ Github. But Guido isn't on Github, only Google+. :-(
  - devfuel 14y ago
    Yeah...i had to look at the distinction between "gifts" and "tips" a bit on the IRS site. I am sure a tax accountant can clarify, but (in my mind) the name "gittip" had put it informally in the tip category. A little digging made it seem like that was a restaurant-related thing. Does simply earmarking money as a "gift" make it so? Is it a special rule in restaurants (in US) that prevent you from giving a "gift" instead of a "tip"? But I digress. Perhaps it is just a potential FAQ situation: "If I get some 'gittips' what are my tax responsibilities?"
aristidesfl 14y ago
This is potentially nefarious to everyone. 1. People perform poorly, creative and intellectually, when there is a reward at stake, specially if it is cash. This is proved by multiple studies. 2. Small cash compensations will shift the focus from the main reason people enjoy to code and contribute. Worst, if the amount of cash reward is inferior to the true value of the work they do (and it will be), people will feel undervalued and loose motivation. Either pay them well, or not pay at all. 3. It will be a constant remainder they should be making real money instead of making tips on github. 4. The system benefits developers by popularity instead of quality. Besides popular developers are those who need it the least. 5. Popularity and profit will poison the minds of the young Jedi's while coding thus decreasing overall code quality, creativity and productivity.
- whit537 14y ago
  It's also potentially virtuous. 1. Gittips aren't a paycheck, they are a no-strings-attached gift. 2. Small cash compensations will free people up to contribute to society on their own terms rather than wasting their time surfing Facebook in a cubicle. 3. It might be a reminder that their society values the contributions they make based on their passions and interests and not on their utility to a corporation. 4. Popular developers know who is doing the grunt work and deserves more recognition. They can call out such people via Twitter, etc. In the future I can imagine upgrading Gittip to allow high earners to distribute higher amounts per person per week. 5. Young Jedis will be incentivized to add true value to society as adjudicated by the wise crowd, rather than answering to a monolithic corporation as their societal proxy.
  - aristidesfl 14y ago
    The only argument which makes sense at the light of what I said is number 4.
    - whit537 14y ago
      You'll have to say more if you want to try to merge horizons.

32 points by jordanmessina 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

lazerwalker 14y ago

I love the idea, but I'm not so keen on the name. The mission statement gives examples of how this is a great idea for musicians, coffee shop owners, and other generally smart people ("genius grants for the rest of us"). On the other hand: the name, the required GitHub authentication, and the list of suggested tippees all strongly imply that this is solely for programmers. This says to me that the grand plan is to start out by focusing on programers (which makes sense, since it's a group of people who are on the whole really good at recognizing and rewarding people and projects that make their jobs easier), and to eventually expand from there. The problem with this is that 'Gittip' is an incredibly technically-focused name; it makes perfect sense in context of tipping your favorite GitHub contributors, but not so much when your average non-engineer Joe wants to give money to the guy who makes his coffee every morning.

jforrest 14y ago
Does it matter? "Regular" people won't pick up on the reference to git, but it's still a nice short domain name, easy to spell and pronounce, and git is a slang spelling for get. I think the name works well.
- jordanmessina 14y ago
  Git is also British slang for stupid. Like all Torvalds' software, he names it after himself :) I think you're right. It's a good domain name and "regular" people won't pick up on the reference and won't really care regardless.
  - gmac 14y ago
    Git is also British slang for stupid. In my book, not exactly. It's more like the mildest possible term of abuse. You could generally get away with calling someone a git to their face and in front of their grandmother. Assuming they'd done something tricksy or cheeky or grumpy.
- whit537 14y ago
  What he said. :-)
whit537 14y ago
You know, I thought the same thing. The idea started as a tipjar for Github and I bought Gittip.com, but then I realized it was much bigger, so I decided to use Logstown.com, a domain I already own. But then I was talking to my bro-in-law this past weekend, a non-technical musician, and he was like "Logstown makes me think I'm taking a dump. I like Gittip a lot better." So I renamed it back. He has no idea what git and github are, so the name gittip to him is just a nice, symmetrical name that has "tip" in it and evocations of "gift." Go figure. Look at the way that "bit" and "wiki" have evolved beyond BitTorrent and the WikiWikiWeb. I console myself by hoping that with gittip, the same is maybe happening to "git."
- whit537 14y ago
  I mean, it already started happening with github.
- lazerwalker 14y ago
  Fair enough! The main thing I'd worry about is people mis-hearing the name and trying to go to either gettip.com or gifttip.com, but it's very likely that I'm giving people too little credit. That wouldn't be a problem if 'git' enters the non-technical zeitgeist, but that's admittedly a pretty big 'if'.
- jmathai 14y ago
  > [Insert name] makes me think I'm taking a dump. That's about as good of feedback as you can ask for.
  - whit537 14y ago
    :D

whitmo 14y ago

Kickass!

zalew 14y ago

From the name I thought it's about sending tips to someone (like tips & tricks) how he could improve his code via some git pull request or something.

albertsun 14y ago

It appears some of the people who you can tip on the site actually had the tip jars set up for them without their knowledge. I think this was on HN before about why that isn't cool. http://krisstraub.com/2011/11/20/kachingle-and-the-transgression-of-opt-out/ http://krisstraub.com/2011/11/20/kachingle-and-the-transgres...

whit537 14y ago
Thanks for the link. Reading now ...
- whit537 14y ago
  First off: Yes. The premise is that you can tip people without their knowledge, "crowd-sourced genius grants." https://www.gittip.com/about/ https://www.gittip.com/about/ I see a few differences with Kachinga: - With Gittip, recipients receive the full face value of their tips. The donor is responsible for credit card fees. - The fees are minimal: $0.10 + 3.9%. Right now I'm using Samurai for payments, and they charge me $0.10 + 2.3%. My margins are thin. - My margins are not going to be "my" margins. If this gets traction, we're going to organize it as a cooperative, not a corporation. The plan is for everyone who tips through the site to be a member of the cooperative, the purpose of which will be for the escrow of gifts to individuals. - Gittip tipjars are tied to people, not companies or websites (you can currently send tips to Github organization accounts, but that's ticketed to fix: https://github.com/whit537/www.gittip.com/issues/4 https://github.com/whit537/www.gittip.com/issues/4). I can imagine changing that but for now it's designed for people, natural persons.
carols10cents 14y ago
What if you could pledge a tip to someone but your card wouldn't actually be charged until they accepted?
- whit537 14y ago
  Hmmm ... I imagined money accumulating over time until it was significant. Then finding out about it would be like getting a call that you won a genius grant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacArthur_Fellows_Program http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacArthur_Fellows_Program I could see this as a possible compromise if opt-out turns out to really suck as bad as with Kachinga.

rys 14y ago

Do you really think the tips should be recurring to the same person every week, rather than also having a one off option? Also, once you've started tipping someone, it's possible to stop?

whit537 14y ago
a) Eating isn't a one-off option. Expenses are recurring so income must be too. I can imagine a one-off option down the road. b) Yes, it's trivial to stop. And because tips are anonymous, there's no social awkwardness to stopping a tip.
- rys 14y ago
  Of course eating isn't a one-off option, but it's highly unlikely that anyone will be using income from this to make ends meet. Mirroring the tip analogy offline, I don't go into my favourite restaurant and tip the service staff there every week, even if I haven't eaten; it only happens if I eat there. It seems to me that one-off tips will be a heavily requested thing at least. Great idea, I hope it really takes off.
  - whit537 14y ago
    Yeah, you're probably right. https://github.com/whit537/www.gittip.com/issues/5 https://github.com/whit537/www.gittip.com/issues/5

devfuel 14y ago

Is an interesting idea. Presumably taxes are the responsibility of the recipient when they "withdraw"? Also, would it be appropriate to have a widget? Includes stuff like: -"Hey. Here is how you can support this work" -Gittip Overview Link -Github handle -Public income numbers Or is that too "gimme"? Is this meant to be more of a "for hackers by hackers" thing? Or more mainstream?

whit537 14y ago
Gifts don't count as income in the US. There's a gift tax on the donor, but that doesn't kick in until you give $13,000 per person per year. Not sure about other countries. Widget: Heck yeah! Wanna write one? :-) Intended to be mainstream, starting w/ Github. But Guido isn't on Github, only Google+. :-(
- devfuel 14y ago
  Yeah...i had to look at the distinction between "gifts" and "tips" a bit on the IRS site. I am sure a tax accountant can clarify, but (in my mind) the name "gittip" had put it informally in the tip category. A little digging made it seem like that was a restaurant-related thing. Does simply earmarking money as a "gift" make it so? Is it a special rule in restaurants (in US) that prevent you from giving a "gift" instead of a "tip"? But I digress. Perhaps it is just a potential FAQ situation: "If I get some 'gittips' what are my tax responsibilities?"

aristidesfl 14y ago

This is potentially nefarious to everyone. 1. People perform poorly, creative and intellectually, when there is a reward at stake, specially if it is cash. This is proved by multiple studies. 2. Small cash compensations will shift the focus from the main reason people enjoy to code and contribute. Worst, if the amount of cash reward is inferior to the true value of the work they do (and it will be), people will feel undervalued and loose motivation. Either pay them well, or not pay at all. 3. It will be a constant remainder they should be making real money instead of making tips on github. 4. The system benefits developers by popularity instead of quality. Besides popular developers are those who need it the least. 5. Popularity and profit will poison the minds of the young Jedi's while coding thus decreasing overall code quality, creativity and productivity.

whit537 14y ago
It's also potentially virtuous. 1. Gittips aren't a paycheck, they are a no-strings-attached gift. 2. Small cash compensations will free people up to contribute to society on their own terms rather than wasting their time surfing Facebook in a cubicle. 3. It might be a reminder that their society values the contributions they make based on their passions and interests and not on their utility to a corporation. 4. Popular developers know who is doing the grunt work and deserves more recognition. They can call out such people via Twitter, etc. In the future I can imagine upgrading Gittip to allow high earners to distribute higher amounts per person per week. 5. Young Jedis will be incentivized to add true value to society as adjudicated by the wise crowd, rather than answering to a monolithic corporation as their societal proxy.
- aristidesfl 14y ago
  The only argument which makes sense at the light of what I said is number 4.
  - whit537 14y ago
    You'll have to say more if you want to try to merge horizons.