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"Perfectionism" is just avoidance. You don't want to work on something because it won't be "good enough". The keep part there is: you dont want to work on somet

"Perfectionism" is just avoidance. You don't want to work on something because it won't be "good enough". The keep part there is: you dont want to work on something. Avoidance has a approach/repel dynamic. You are attracted to it because you want the reward, but repelled by it because you think it's difficult. "Don't spare the rod" parenting, beats children until they stop avoiding things (ie., an approach-side policy: encourage approach). You can also break tasks down, make them less core to your identity, rewards etc. (repl-side policy: make it less repulsive). A lot of people try the approach-side policies, and beat themselves up, etc. which works sometimes but not always. "Perfectionism" is often caused when people beat themselves up to do something thereby making that very thing seem even more difficult/essential/important/etc. which makes it even more repulsive. "Perfection" is the propaganda of a mind doing everything it can to avoid a task, often also caused, by pathological demand avoidance wherein avoidance can become extremely elaborate in justification to the point of apparent delusion. Ignore all this superficial language. The heart of the behaviour is in what isnt being done; that's the truth of what's going on.

jjulius 2y ago
>"Perfectionism" is just avoidance. And this is an absolute that isn't true.
- mjburgess 2y ago
  Perfectionism in this context of task-based perfectionist behaviour. If you mean the broad category of maladaptive behaviour called perfectionism, see, eg., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfectionism_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfectionism_(psychology) -- where, when applied to tasks, it has the dynamics i've described. > Perfectionism can be damaging. It can take the form of procrastination when used to postpone tasks and self-deprecation when used to excuse poor performance or to seek sympathy and affirmation from other people. These, together or separate, are self-handicapping strategies perfectionists may use to protect their sense of self-competence.[44][45] In general, perfectionists feel constant pressure to meet their high expectations, which creates cognitive dissonance when expectations cannot be met.
rconti 2y ago
> "Don't spare the rod" parenting, beats children until they stop avoiding things (ie., an approach-side policy: encourage approach). Unless the "don't spare the rod" parenting is beating the children over substandard quality, or something other than the one specific aspect you chose to highlight.
- mjburgess 2y ago
  Perfectionism isn't about quality, that's the illusion: it isn't anyone sincerely trying to make something perfect. Depending on the type, it can be about control; or on tasks, as with this article, it's typically just a disguise for avoidance. It doesnt make sense to argue with a perfectionist about how to make something perfect. That completely misses the point. They have no interest in making it perfect, nor any notion of what it being perfect would even be like. In the vast majority of cases, it's avoidance. In any case, when people beat their children it is because they aren't doing what they "are supposed to do" and is very much connected with perfectionism. Children grow up worried to fail to meet some parental standard. When they apply this beating-themseleves-up means of self-motivation to some tasks this can cause avoidance, because the tasks spiral into ever more delusional levels of importance and difficulty. The solution to this sort of perfectionism is emotional. It is engaging with what a person is afraid of, what's causing their avoidance, what part of them is being "triggered" by the task, and working backwards from a completed state, etc. A perfectionist, in many ways, wants to argue about how to perfect a task; this just enables more avoidance; and indeed, confirms their fears.
  - xyzzy123 2y ago
    Agree 100%, if you want to make your kids avoidant, yelling at them and beating them is a great way to do that.
pessimizer 2y ago
> "Perfectionism" is just avoidance. You don't want to work on something because it won't be "good enough". The keep part there is: you dont want to work on something. Everybody talking about perfectionism is trying to explain to you that this is not true. Perfectionists have anxiety about delivering things, and will often avoid extremely easy work in order to do harder things. I'd almost say that's the defining characteristic; you'll see a lot of things that are 95% completed, and instead of finishing and delivering, they'll switch to learning ancient Greek (edit: or add a bunch of "necessary" complications that balloon that 5% into infinity.) Go through a perfectionist's projects, find one that's close to deliverable with a few finishing touches. They will try to keep you away from it (they may even pick a fight with you), they will hide it from you, they'll tell you it's terrible, they may try to destroy it, and if you manage to pry it away and finish it, they'll beg you to take their name off of it. They will do this to the point of emotional manipulation and open threats. The avoidance of the task isn't the cause, it's the only symptom. > Ignore all this superficial language. The heart of the behaviour is in what isnt being done; that's the truth of what's going on. Perfectionism has absolutely fuck-all to do with the specific task. Perfectionists like working on things, which is why they're constantly doing it.
- twojacobtwo 2y ago
  Well said. I've been reading through the comments looking for this nuance and I think you're the only one (so far) that hit the nail on the head.

jjulius 2y ago

>"Perfectionism" is just avoidance. And this is an absolute that isn't true.

mjburgess 2y ago
Perfectionism in this context of task-based perfectionist behaviour. If you mean the broad category of maladaptive behaviour called perfectionism, see, eg., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfectionism_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfectionism_(psychology) -- where, when applied to tasks, it has the dynamics i've described. > Perfectionism can be damaging. It can take the form of procrastination when used to postpone tasks and self-deprecation when used to excuse poor performance or to seek sympathy and affirmation from other people. These, together or separate, are self-handicapping strategies perfectionists may use to protect their sense of self-competence.[44][45] In general, perfectionists feel constant pressure to meet their high expectations, which creates cognitive dissonance when expectations cannot be met.

rconti 2y ago

> "Don't spare the rod" parenting, beats children until they stop avoiding things (ie., an approach-side policy: encourage approach). Unless the "don't spare the rod" parenting is beating the children over substandard quality, or something other than the one specific aspect you chose to highlight.

mjburgess 2y ago
Perfectionism isn't about quality, that's the illusion: it isn't anyone sincerely trying to make something perfect. Depending on the type, it can be about control; or on tasks, as with this article, it's typically just a disguise for avoidance. It doesnt make sense to argue with a perfectionist about how to make something perfect. That completely misses the point. They have no interest in making it perfect, nor any notion of what it being perfect would even be like. In the vast majority of cases, it's avoidance. In any case, when people beat their children it is because they aren't doing what they "are supposed to do" and is very much connected with perfectionism. Children grow up worried to fail to meet some parental standard. When they apply this beating-themseleves-up means of self-motivation to some tasks this can cause avoidance, because the tasks spiral into ever more delusional levels of importance and difficulty. The solution to this sort of perfectionism is emotional. It is engaging with what a person is afraid of, what's causing their avoidance, what part of them is being "triggered" by the task, and working backwards from a completed state, etc. A perfectionist, in many ways, wants to argue about how to perfect a task; this just enables more avoidance; and indeed, confirms their fears.
- xyzzy123 2y ago
  Agree 100%, if you want to make your kids avoidant, yelling at them and beating them is a great way to do that.

pessimizer 2y ago

> "Perfectionism" is just avoidance. You don't want to work on something because it won't be "good enough". The keep part there is: you dont want to work on something. Everybody talking about perfectionism is trying to explain to you that this is not true. Perfectionists have anxiety about delivering things, and will often avoid extremely easy work in order to do harder things. I'd almost say that's the defining characteristic; you'll see a lot of things that are 95% completed, and instead of finishing and delivering, they'll switch to learning ancient Greek (edit: or add a bunch of "necessary" complications that balloon that 5% into infinity.) Go through a perfectionist's projects, find one that's close to deliverable with a few finishing touches. They will try to keep you away from it (they may even pick a fight with you), they will hide it from you, they'll tell you it's terrible, they may try to destroy it, and if you manage to pry it away and finish it, they'll beg you to take their name off of it. They will do this to the point of emotional manipulation and open threats. The avoidance of the task isn't the cause, it's the only symptom. > Ignore all this superficial language. The heart of the behaviour is in what isnt being done; that's the truth of what's going on. Perfectionism has absolutely fuck-all to do with the specific task. Perfectionists like working on things, which is why they're constantly doing it.

twojacobtwo 2y ago
Well said. I've been reading through the comments looking for this nuance and I think you're the only one (so far) that hit the nail on the head.