3 ms·

If I understand the spec properly, the cable isn’t truly symmetrical internally and relies on switching to determine which pins are used for which function. It

If I understand the spec properly, the cable isn’t truly symmetrical internally and relies on switching to determine which pins are used for which function. It all seems needlessly complicated to my reading, and it seems like Apple’s Lightning connector is superior in these respects, although I don’t know if it would be capable of performing at USB C’s USB3/4 speeds and implement all its modes, but we're unlikely to get a new connector standard anytime soon, possibly a few USB generations at least. By then, the use case for USB is likely to be much different also, so different design choices are likely to be made to respond to future market conditions that are difficult for me to predict, but I hypothesize that by then ad hoc wireless power delivery and data transfer will be much more mature.

flaminHotSpeedo 2y ago
Another unfortunate blunder resulting from the complicated design is that usb C female to usb A male adapters are unsafe and prohibited by the usb C spec (because they can be used to make unsafe connectors) You still see those adapters frequently because this stupid decision would hobble usb C adoption (since it would prevent you from making a usb C peripheral with backwards compatibility for usb A using an adapter) so manufacturers have largely ignored that part of the spec
- aspenmayer 2y ago
  I’m somehow failing to understand the use case you’ve described and I don’t think it’s your fault. I’ve seen devices with female USB C ports, and they’re perfectly backward compatible - you either use a C to C cable or A to C cable depending on what is on the other end. I sometimes see nonstandard A to A cables, however, possibly for the same reasons you’ve mentioned above, but I think it’s usually a cost-saving measure and perhaps easier to implement type A female connectors rather than mini/micro type B, but I have no experience with designing devices, only operating and repairing them. What is your experience with devices that are backwards compatible with an adapter like you describe? Do you have an example of one, because I can’t think of any, not that I doubt they exist.
  - toast0 2y ago
    If you have a usb NIC, chances are it has a male plug so it can connect directly to a computer without an extra cable. If it has usb A male, it can connect to a large number of computers, but nothing from Apple recently. If it has a usb c male, it can connect to recent Apple computers but has limited ports on other computers and can't connect to older computers. If it has a usb-c and a usb-a male to usb-c female dongle (often attached to the little bit of cable between the device and the plug), then it will work with everything. If you clip off the dongle, then you can use it to connect usb c male devices to usb-a female ports in lots of useful applications. It violates the spec, but it's super handy. If you have a usb a male to usb c male cable, you can use the forbidden dongle and the allowed cable to make a forbidden usb a male to usb a male cable which is probably not useful for much.
    - aspenmayer 2y ago
      I appreciate your example of a USB NIC, as I am familiar with both USB A and USB C versions of those. I was specifically envisioning devices with female ports, but out of convenience and convention, most peripherals have a built-in/permanment male-terminated cord. Can you think of any examples with a female port? One of my favorite YouTube creators, DIY Perks, made a video about converting USB connectors to USB C which is very well done, as is their usual standard of quality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-vFtiDYiIw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-vFtiDYiIw
      - toast0 2y ago
        Powered usb hubs tend to have a female port for inbound rather than a captive cable. Printers and scanners often have a female port (often usb-B). Some external hard drive docks have female ports, all of mine predate usb-c, so I don't know if the common port has changed. Things expecting to be charged/powered by usb tend to have female ports --- phones, rechargable video game controllers, espX boards, that sort of thing.
        aspenmayer 2y ago

flaminHotSpeedo 2y ago

Another unfortunate blunder resulting from the complicated design is that usb C female to usb A male adapters are unsafe and prohibited by the usb C spec (because they can be used to make unsafe connectors) You still see those adapters frequently because this stupid decision would hobble usb C adoption (since it would prevent you from making a usb C peripheral with backwards compatibility for usb A using an adapter) so manufacturers have largely ignored that part of the spec

aspenmayer 2y ago
I’m somehow failing to understand the use case you’ve described and I don’t think it’s your fault. I’ve seen devices with female USB C ports, and they’re perfectly backward compatible - you either use a C to C cable or A to C cable depending on what is on the other end. I sometimes see nonstandard A to A cables, however, possibly for the same reasons you’ve mentioned above, but I think it’s usually a cost-saving measure and perhaps easier to implement type A female connectors rather than mini/micro type B, but I have no experience with designing devices, only operating and repairing them. What is your experience with devices that are backwards compatible with an adapter like you describe? Do you have an example of one, because I can’t think of any, not that I doubt they exist.
- toast0 2y ago
  If you have a usb NIC, chances are it has a male plug so it can connect directly to a computer without an extra cable. If it has usb A male, it can connect to a large number of computers, but nothing from Apple recently. If it has a usb c male, it can connect to recent Apple computers but has limited ports on other computers and can't connect to older computers. If it has a usb-c and a usb-a male to usb-c female dongle (often attached to the little bit of cable between the device and the plug), then it will work with everything. If you clip off the dongle, then you can use it to connect usb c male devices to usb-a female ports in lots of useful applications. It violates the spec, but it's super handy. If you have a usb a male to usb c male cable, you can use the forbidden dongle and the allowed cable to make a forbidden usb a male to usb a male cable which is probably not useful for much.
  - aspenmayer 2y ago
    I appreciate your example of a USB NIC, as I am familiar with both USB A and USB C versions of those. I was specifically envisioning devices with female ports, but out of convenience and convention, most peripherals have a built-in/permanment male-terminated cord. Can you think of any examples with a female port? One of my favorite YouTube creators, DIY Perks, made a video about converting USB connectors to USB C which is very well done, as is their usual standard of quality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-vFtiDYiIw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-vFtiDYiIw
    - toast0 2y ago
      Powered usb hubs tend to have a female port for inbound rather than a captive cable. Printers and scanners often have a female port (often usb-B). Some external hard drive docks have female ports, all of mine predate usb-c, so I don't know if the common port has changed. Things expecting to be charged/powered by usb tend to have female ports --- phones, rechargable video game controllers, espX boards, that sort of thing.
      - aspenmayer 2y ago