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Two things: 1. Americans (in particular) often bemoan how inefficient the government is as a reason to cut government services. In truth, government progrtams

by jmyeet 2y ago

Two things: 1. Americans (in particular) often bemoan how inefficient the government is as a reason to cut government services. In truth, government progrtams are designed to fail. This is a highly successful strategy called "starving the beast" [1]. As an example, in 1996 then-president Clinton enacted welfare reform. One provision replaced a Federal program caleld Aid to Families with Dependent Children ("AFDC") with state block grants to a new program called Temporary Assistance to Needy Families ("TANF"). This allows the state to decide how that many is spent. This has been a disaster for getting aid to those that need it [2] and much more inefficient. It's this kind of thing that enabled Mississippi's welfare corruption. 2. A lot of effort has been spent and is still being spent to essentially divert federal funds to private (typically religious) institutions. That includes TANF blcok grants but, more importantly, the issue of "school choice", which is really just diverting education funds to religious schools. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast [2]: https://copolicy.org/news/tanfs-cautionary-tale-about-block-grants/ https://copolicy.org/news/tanfs-cautionary-tale-about-block-...

jonhohle 2y ago
Unfortunately having funds available to those who need it and giving funds to those who need it are very different problems. There was a significant amount of fraud with COVID funds, for example. As a parent of four kids in public schools, less money is spent by the state on kids in choice programs and in most self selected charter schools. That seems like a win-win - parents get to choose schools that meet their educational needs, the public pays less in taxes to educated kids outside of the public school system. My wife was a public school teacher, my mom was a public school teacher. Public schools are great for many, but their cost per pupil are in line with high end private schools and for the median students I don’t think they provide a better experience. In our area less than half of what the state gives a public school for a student is available as a voucher. Unfortunately when a public school cannot provide a FAPE (special needs, social issues, etc.), without school choice the burden falls on the parents.
- jmyeet 2y ago
  > less money is spent by the state on kids in choice programs and in most self selected charter schools. That seems like a win-win Charter schools cherry pick students (eg they don't generally have to deal with the added expense of special needs students), tend to have more students from more affluent families (so less remedial teaching, which is more expensive), pay their teachers less (overall on average) and give less job protections to teachers. Additionally, charters have a severe lack of accountability and a huge fraud and waste problem [1]. If the public schools in your area are "failing", it's because they've been set up to fail. Starve them of resources and sell the voters on private, unaccountable schools. [1]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/petergreene/2019/12/10/new-report-charter-fraud-and-waste-worse-than-we-thought/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/petergreene/2019/12/10/new-repo...
  - jonhohle 2y ago
    I specifically said self-selected, median students. 60-80% of students could be educated without the support services required for special education (high or low), but those students are put into facilities that are not efficient for the average student. I also never said our public schools were failing, just that they have cost equivalent to private schools without any of the benefits. I’m sure there are terrible charter and private school, just like there are terrible business. With a terrible business, I can go elsewhere. My community is stuck with a public school regardless of its quality. Public schools also have little accountability and their monolithic structure amplifies bad decisions across cities. For example, my children’s school chose a math curriculum and purchased a seven year contract approved by “accountable” parties. Every year since that curriculum was adopted math scores in the district have declined. An entire generation is failing to be properly educated in basic math fundamentals! The school district is flush with resources for everything but teachers and students. Want to put new technology in all of the classrooms and give a superintendent who failed all his metrics a raise? Sure. Maybe we’ll have money for teacher raises and a working math curriculum next year. If a charter school costs the state less money (which even district run charters do), to pull out a portion of the population to meet their specific needs, why would you be against that? That leaves more money for special education. I have skin in the game. I have a highly gifted child working two grades ahead in math (he went to a different district that could meet his needs). I have two students who need outside tutoring, one of which qualifies for special education services, and a fourth who would succeed in any environment you put him in. I’ve had to fight to get services required by law for my kids in a district that is supposedly working as intended by public school advocates. My wife taught in the district our kids attend. We are constantly discussing whether we should move them to private or charters that would better meet their needs or continue to fight the bureaucratic public school district. If you don’t have school age kids and just read news articles, you probably don’t understand what parents go through when their kids don’t fit the slot the public schools provide for them. As someone living it, I’m happy that parents are able to find schools that fit their family’s needs, have resources from the state to attend them, and those resources cost me less as a taxpayer. If we had an option that suited us, we would take it.

by jmyeet 2y ago

jonhohle 2y ago

Unfortunately having funds available to those who need it and giving funds to those who need it are very different problems. There was a significant amount of fraud with COVID funds, for example. As a parent of four kids in public schools, less money is spent by the state on kids in choice programs and in most self selected charter schools. That seems like a win-win - parents get to choose schools that meet their educational needs, the public pays less in taxes to educated kids outside of the public school system. My wife was a public school teacher, my mom was a public school teacher. Public schools are great for many, but their cost per pupil are in line with high end private schools and for the median students I don’t think they provide a better experience. In our area less than half of what the state gives a public school for a student is available as a voucher. Unfortunately when a public school cannot provide a FAPE (special needs, social issues, etc.), without school choice the burden falls on the parents.

jmyeet 2y ago
> less money is spent by the state on kids in choice programs and in most self selected charter schools. That seems like a win-win Charter schools cherry pick students (eg they don't generally have to deal with the added expense of special needs students), tend to have more students from more affluent families (so less remedial teaching, which is more expensive), pay their teachers less (overall on average) and give less job protections to teachers. Additionally, charters have a severe lack of accountability and a huge fraud and waste problem [1]. If the public schools in your area are "failing", it's because they've been set up to fail. Starve them of resources and sell the voters on private, unaccountable schools. [1]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/petergreene/2019/12/10/new-report-charter-fraud-and-waste-worse-than-we-thought/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/petergreene/2019/12/10/new-repo...
- jonhohle 2y ago
  I specifically said self-selected, median students. 60-80% of students could be educated without the support services required for special education (high or low), but those students are put into facilities that are not efficient for the average student. I also never said our public schools were failing, just that they have cost equivalent to private schools without any of the benefits. I’m sure there are terrible charter and private school, just like there are terrible business. With a terrible business, I can go elsewhere. My community is stuck with a public school regardless of its quality. Public schools also have little accountability and their monolithic structure amplifies bad decisions across cities. For example, my children’s school chose a math curriculum and purchased a seven year contract approved by “accountable” parties. Every year since that curriculum was adopted math scores in the district have declined. An entire generation is failing to be properly educated in basic math fundamentals! The school district is flush with resources for everything but teachers and students. Want to put new technology in all of the classrooms and give a superintendent who failed all his metrics a raise? Sure. Maybe we’ll have money for teacher raises and a working math curriculum next year. If a charter school costs the state less money (which even district run charters do), to pull out a portion of the population to meet their specific needs, why would you be against that? That leaves more money for special education. I have skin in the game. I have a highly gifted child working two grades ahead in math (he went to a different district that could meet his needs). I have two students who need outside tutoring, one of which qualifies for special education services, and a fourth who would succeed in any environment you put him in. I’ve had to fight to get services required by law for my kids in a district that is supposedly working as intended by public school advocates. My wife taught in the district our kids attend. We are constantly discussing whether we should move them to private or charters that would better meet their needs or continue to fight the bureaucratic public school district. If you don’t have school age kids and just read news articles, you probably don’t understand what parents go through when their kids don’t fit the slot the public schools provide for them. As someone living it, I’m happy that parents are able to find schools that fit their family’s needs, have resources from the state to attend them, and those resources cost me less as a taxpayer. If we had an option that suited us, we would take it.