5 ms·

nothing in this universe has 0 chance.

nickpeterson 2y ago
Plugging a USB cable into the back of a monitor on the first try without looking is as close as we've ever come to zero chance.
- formercoder 2y ago
  Third try always
- mistermann 2y ago
  The odds do not increase all that much with looking either.
- aspenmayer 2y ago
  USB-C fixes this, only to replace the problem of orientation with the greater specter of alternate mode support, or lack thereof. This is why we can’t have nice things.
  - 93po 2y ago
    The real life USB C experience has replaced the "which side is up" problem with the "is this cheaply made garbage electronic device going to charge at all with my $80 MacBook USB C charger", which it often does not (and instead requires a USB A to USB C charging cable)
    - aspenmayer 2y ago
      I have also seen these issues and always wondered why this happened. There seems to be an issue with the tolerances of USB C compared to A that make C more susceptible to damage and also dirt and dust. The main issue seems to be lack of resistors in some devices, which leads to USB C not seeing the device to be charged as such, as it isn't negotiating the USB-PD part. USB A doesn’t officially implement a power delivery negotiation spec, it’s just always on at the charger end, with more amps possibly being negotiated if I’m reading properly. People seem to be able to resolve this issue with a daisy chain. Devices that usually only work with A to C cables might be able to use a C charger connected to a C to A (female) cord or A to C adapter, which is then connected with a standard A to C cable to the device to be charged. It’s probably easier to keep a USB A charger and A to C cable, but hopefully this helps put your mind at ease that there is a rational explanation. https://acroname.com/blog/why-usb-c-connections-sometimes-dont-work https://acroname.com/blog/why-usb-c-connections-sometimes-do... https://plugable.com/blogs/news/understanding-usb-c-charging-issues https://plugable.com/blogs/news/understanding-usb-c-charging... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C The Reddit post below actually explains how to work around the problem as I mentioned above: https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/w1ismo/how_come_some_devices_only_work_with_usba_to_usbc/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/w1ismo/how_co...
      - 93po 2y ago
        oh im totally aware of there being a reason, it's just massively annoying because i deliberately seek out USB C stuff (which is thankfully becomming the default) and then frequently having to return it because the whole point for me is having a single charging solution and not 4 of them
  - toast0 2y ago
    USB-C only mostly fixes the what side is up problem. I've had devices that degraded to only working with the right side up. Usually from pocket fluff accumulation that can be cleaned out, but still.
    - aspenmayer 2y ago
      If I understand the spec properly, the cable isn’t truly symmetrical internally and relies on switching to determine which pins are used for which function. It all seems needlessly complicated to my reading, and it seems like Apple’s Lightning connector is superior in these respects, although I don’t know if it would be capable of performing at USB C’s USB3/4 speeds and implement all its modes, but we're unlikely to get a new connector standard anytime soon, possibly a few USB generations at least. By then, the use case for USB is likely to be much different also, so different design choices are likely to be made to respond to future market conditions that are difficult for me to predict, but I hypothesize that by then ad hoc wireless power delivery and data transfer will be much more mature.
      - flaminHotSpeedo 2y ago
        Another unfortunate blunder resulting from the complicated design is that usb C female to usb A male adapters are unsafe and prohibited by the usb C spec (because they can be used to make unsafe connectors) You still see those adapters frequently because this stupid decision would hobble usb C adoption (since it would prevent you from making a usb C peripheral with backwards compatibility for usb A using an adapter) so manufacturers have largely ignored that part of the spec
        aspenmayer 2y ago
        I’m somehow failing to understand the use case you’ve described and I don’t think it’s your fault. I’ve seen devices with female USB C ports, and they’re perfectly backward compatible - you either use a C to C cable or A to C cable depending on what is on the other end. I sometimes see nonstandard A to A cables, however, possibly for the same reasons you’ve mentioned above, but I think it’s usually a cost-saving measure and perhaps easier to implement type A female connectors rather than mini/micro type B, but I have no experience with designing devices, only operating and repairing them. What is your experience with devices that are backwards compatible with an adapter like you describe? Do you have an example of one, because I can’t think of any, not that I doubt they exist.
- Keyframe 2y ago
  Exception that proves the rule! Plugging USB-A on the first try equals excalibur out of the stone. Our Arthur is out there, somewhere.
- nkrisc 2y ago
  Somehow, it always works on the third try.

Plugging a USB cable into the back of a monitor on the first try without looking is as close as we've ever come to zero chance.

formercoder 2y ago
Third try always
mistermann 2y ago
The odds do not increase all that much with looking either.
aspenmayer 2y ago
USB-C fixes this, only to replace the problem of orientation with the greater specter of alternate mode support, or lack thereof. This is why we can’t have nice things.
- 93po 2y ago
  The real life USB C experience has replaced the "which side is up" problem with the "is this cheaply made garbage electronic device going to charge at all with my $80 MacBook USB C charger", which it often does not (and instead requires a USB A to USB C charging cable)
  - aspenmayer 2y ago
    I have also seen these issues and always wondered why this happened. There seems to be an issue with the tolerances of USB C compared to A that make C more susceptible to damage and also dirt and dust. The main issue seems to be lack of resistors in some devices, which leads to USB C not seeing the device to be charged as such, as it isn't negotiating the USB-PD part. USB A doesn’t officially implement a power delivery negotiation spec, it’s just always on at the charger end, with more amps possibly being negotiated if I’m reading properly. People seem to be able to resolve this issue with a daisy chain. Devices that usually only work with A to C cables might be able to use a C charger connected to a C to A (female) cord or A to C adapter, which is then connected with a standard A to C cable to the device to be charged. It’s probably easier to keep a USB A charger and A to C cable, but hopefully this helps put your mind at ease that there is a rational explanation. https://acroname.com/blog/why-usb-c-connections-sometimes-dont-work https://acroname.com/blog/why-usb-c-connections-sometimes-do... https://plugable.com/blogs/news/understanding-usb-c-charging-issues https://plugable.com/blogs/news/understanding-usb-c-charging... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C The Reddit post below actually explains how to work around the problem as I mentioned above: https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/w1ismo/how_come_some_devices_only_work_with_usba_to_usbc/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/w1ismo/how_co...
    - 93po 2y ago
      oh im totally aware of there being a reason, it's just massively annoying because i deliberately seek out USB C stuff (which is thankfully becomming the default) and then frequently having to return it because the whole point for me is having a single charging solution and not 4 of them
- toast0 2y ago
  USB-C only mostly fixes the what side is up problem. I've had devices that degraded to only working with the right side up. Usually from pocket fluff accumulation that can be cleaned out, but still.
  - aspenmayer 2y ago
    If I understand the spec properly, the cable isn’t truly symmetrical internally and relies on switching to determine which pins are used for which function. It all seems needlessly complicated to my reading, and it seems like Apple’s Lightning connector is superior in these respects, although I don’t know if it would be capable of performing at USB C’s USB3/4 speeds and implement all its modes, but we're unlikely to get a new connector standard anytime soon, possibly a few USB generations at least. By then, the use case for USB is likely to be much different also, so different design choices are likely to be made to respond to future market conditions that are difficult for me to predict, but I hypothesize that by then ad hoc wireless power delivery and data transfer will be much more mature.
    - flaminHotSpeedo 2y ago
      Another unfortunate blunder resulting from the complicated design is that usb C female to usb A male adapters are unsafe and prohibited by the usb C spec (because they can be used to make unsafe connectors) You still see those adapters frequently because this stupid decision would hobble usb C adoption (since it would prevent you from making a usb C peripheral with backwards compatibility for usb A using an adapter) so manufacturers have largely ignored that part of the spec
      - aspenmayer 2y ago
        I’m somehow failing to understand the use case you’ve described and I don’t think it’s your fault. I’ve seen devices with female USB C ports, and they’re perfectly backward compatible - you either use a C to C cable or A to C cable depending on what is on the other end. I sometimes see nonstandard A to A cables, however, possibly for the same reasons you’ve mentioned above, but I think it’s usually a cost-saving measure and perhaps easier to implement type A female connectors rather than mini/micro type B, but I have no experience with designing devices, only operating and repairing them. What is your experience with devices that are backwards compatible with an adapter like you describe? Do you have an example of one, because I can’t think of any, not that I doubt they exist.
Keyframe 2y ago
Exception that proves the rule! Plugging USB-A on the first try equals excalibur out of the stone. Our Arthur is out there, somewhere.
nkrisc 2y ago
Somehow, it always works on the third try.