7 ms·

The "search" process for your brain structure took 13 billion years and 20 orders of magnitude more computation than we will ever harness.

by skulk 2y ago

dr828282 2y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
CooCooCaCha 2y ago
So what’s your point? That we can’t create AGI because it took evolution a really long time?
- wizzwizz4 2y ago
  Creating a human-level intelligence artificially is easy: just copy what happens in nature. We already have this technology, and we call it IVF. The idea that humans aren't the only way of producing human-level intelligence is taken as a given in many academic circles, but we don't really have any reason to believe that. It's an article of faith (as is its converse – but the converse is at least in-principle falsifiable).
  - CooCooCaCha 2y ago
    “Creating a human-level intelligence artificially is easy: just copy what happens in nature. We already have this technology, and we call it IVF.” What’s the point of this statement? You know that IVF has nothing to do with artificial intelligence (as in intelligent machines). Did you just want to sound smart?
    - stale2002 2y ago
      Of course it is related to the topic. It is related because the goal of all of this is to create human level intelligence or better. And that is a probable way to do it, instead of these other, less established methods that we don't know if they will work or not.
      - CooCooCaCha 2y ago
        The goal is to create human intelligence in machines
        stale2002 2y ago
        Maybe some biological/chemical processes are efficient in some unexpected ways on certain things, for example, that would make mechanical/silicone based "machines" non competitive with such biological machines. Which was the point of the post that you were responding to, if you actually read it.
        CRConrad 2y ago
        > > > the goal of all of this is to create human level intelligence or better. > > The goal is to create human intelligence in machines > Maybe some biological/chemical processes are efficient in some unexpected ways ... I think the comment about "human intelligence in machines" may have been meant to point out that there is already a perfectly expected biological process to create human intelligence not in machines: When a mommy and a daddy like each other very much, they hug and kiss in a special way, and then nine months later...
  - sebzim4500 2y ago
    Even if the best we ever do is something with the intelligence and energy use of the human brain that would still be a massive (5 ooms?) improvement on the status quo. You need to pay people, and they use a bunch of energy commuting, living in air conditioned homes, etc. which has nothing to do with powering the brain.
kragen 2y ago
i'm surprised you think we will harness so little computation. the universe's lifetime is many orders of magnitude longer than 13 billion years, and especially the 4.5 billion years of earth's own history, and the universe is much larger than earth's biosphere, most of which probably has not been exploring the space of possible computations very efficiently
jujube3 2y ago
Neither the Earth nor life have been around for 13 billion years.
HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
I don't think there's much in our brain of significance to intelligence older than ~200M years.
- Jensson 2y ago
  200M years ago you had dinosairs, they were significantly dumber than mammals. 400M years ago you had fish and arthropods, even dumber than dinosaurs. Brain size grows as intelligence grows, the smarter you are the more use you have for compute so the bigger your brain gets. It took a really long time for intelligence to develop enough that brains as big as mammals were worth it.
  - HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
    Big brain (intelligence) comes at a huge cost, and is only useful if you are a generalist. I'd assume that being a generalist drove intelligence. It may have started with warm bloodedness and feathers/fur and further boosted in mammals with milk production (& similar caring for young by birds) - all features that reduce dependence on specific environmental conditions and therefore expose the species to more diverse environments where intelligence becomes valuable.

The "search" process for your brain structure took 13 billion years and 20 orders of magnitude more computation than we will ever harness.

by skulk 2y ago

The "search" process for your brain structure took 13 billion years and 20 orders of magnitude more computation than we will ever harness.

dr828282 2y ago

[flagged]

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

CooCooCaCha 2y ago

So what’s your point? That we can’t create AGI because it took evolution a really long time?

wizzwizz4 2y ago
Creating a human-level intelligence artificially is easy: just copy what happens in nature. We already have this technology, and we call it IVF. The idea that humans aren't the only way of producing human-level intelligence is taken as a given in many academic circles, but we don't really have any reason to believe that. It's an article of faith (as is its converse – but the converse is at least in-principle falsifiable).
- CooCooCaCha 2y ago
  “Creating a human-level intelligence artificially is easy: just copy what happens in nature. We already have this technology, and we call it IVF.” What’s the point of this statement? You know that IVF has nothing to do with artificial intelligence (as in intelligent machines). Did you just want to sound smart?
  - stale2002 2y ago
    Of course it is related to the topic. It is related because the goal of all of this is to create human level intelligence or better. And that is a probable way to do it, instead of these other, less established methods that we don't know if they will work or not.
    - CooCooCaCha 2y ago
      The goal is to create human intelligence in machines
      - stale2002 2y ago
        Maybe some biological/chemical processes are efficient in some unexpected ways on certain things, for example, that would make mechanical/silicone based "machines" non competitive with such biological machines. Which was the point of the post that you were responding to, if you actually read it.
        CRConrad 2y ago
        > > > the goal of all of this is to create human level intelligence or better. > > The goal is to create human intelligence in machines > Maybe some biological/chemical processes are efficient in some unexpected ways ... I think the comment about "human intelligence in machines" may have been meant to point out that there is already a perfectly expected biological process to create human intelligence not in machines: When a mommy and a daddy like each other very much, they hug and kiss in a special way, and then nine months later...
- sebzim4500 2y ago
  Even if the best we ever do is something with the intelligence and energy use of the human brain that would still be a massive (5 ooms?) improvement on the status quo. You need to pay people, and they use a bunch of energy commuting, living in air conditioned homes, etc. which has nothing to do with powering the brain.

kragen 2y ago

i'm surprised you think we will harness so little computation. the universe's lifetime is many orders of magnitude longer than 13 billion years, and especially the 4.5 billion years of earth's own history, and the universe is much larger than earth's biosphere, most of which probably has not been exploring the space of possible computations very efficiently

jujube3 2y ago

Neither the Earth nor life have been around for 13 billion years.

HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago

I don't think there's much in our brain of significance to intelligence older than ~200M years.

Jensson 2y ago
200M years ago you had dinosairs, they were significantly dumber than mammals. 400M years ago you had fish and arthropods, even dumber than dinosaurs. Brain size grows as intelligence grows, the smarter you are the more use you have for compute so the bigger your brain gets. It took a really long time for intelligence to develop enough that brains as big as mammals were worth it.
- HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
  Big brain (intelligence) comes at a huge cost, and is only useful if you are a generalist. I'd assume that being a generalist drove intelligence. It may have started with warm bloodedness and feathers/fur and further boosted in mammals with milk production (& similar caring for young by birds) - all features that reduce dependence on specific environmental conditions and therefore expose the species to more diverse environments where intelligence becomes valuable.