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I've managed both data centers and cloud and IMHO, no, it is not fluff. To take it in order: > doesn't have security issues It sure does, but the matrix of re

by throwaway2016a 2y ago

I've managed both data centers and cloud and IMHO, no, it is not fluff. To take it in order: > doesn't have security issues It sure does, but the matrix of responsibility is very different when it is a hosted service. Note: I am making these comments about Bedrock, which is serverless not in relation to EC2. > It crashes Absolutely, but the recovery profile is not even close to the same. Unless you have a full time person with physical access to your server who can go press buttons. > data loss I'm going to shift this one a tiny bit. What about hardware loss? You need backups regardless. On the cloud when a HDD dies you provision a new one. On premise you need to have the replacement there and ready to swap out (unless you want to wait for shipping). Same with all the other components. So you basically need to buy two of everything. If you have a fleet of servers that's not too bad since presumably they aren't going to all fail on the same component at the same time. But for a single server it is literally double the cost. > doesn't involve lots of administration Again, this is relation to Bedrock with is a managed serverless environment. So there is litterally no administration aside from provisioning and securing access to the resource. You'd have a point if this was running on EC2 or EKS but that's not what my post was about. > Thinking that we don't know any better is both disingenuous and a bit insulting. I'm not saying cloud is perfect in any way, like all things it requires tradeoff, but quite frankly I find you dismissing my 25 years of experience, 1/3 of that has been working in real data centers (including a top-50 internet company at the time) as "fluff" as "disingenuous and a bit insulting".

amluto 2y ago
> Unless you have a full time person with physical access to your server who can go press buttons. Every colo facility I’ve used offers “remote hands”. If you need a button pressed or a disk swapped, they will do it, with a fee structure and response time that varies depending on one’s arrangement with the operator. But it’s generally both inexpensive and fast. > What about hardware loss? You need backups regardless. On the cloud when a HDD dies you provision a new one. On premise you need to have the replacement there and ready to swap out (unless you want to wait for shipping). Two of everything may still be cheaper than expensive cloud services. But there’s an obvious middle ground: a service contract that guarantees you spare parts and a technician with a designated amount of notice. This service is widely available and reasonably priced. (Don’t believe the listed total prices on the web sites of big name server vendors — they negotiate substantial discounts, even in small quantities.)
- throwaway2016a 2y ago
  > But it’s generally both inexpensive and fast. I guess inexpensive is relative. I've been on cloud for a while so I'm not sure what the going rates are for "remote hands" and most of my experience is with on-premise vs co-lo. > Two of everything may still be cheaper than expensive cloud services. That is true. Everything has tradeoffs. Though in the OPs case I think the math is relatively clear. With Open AIs pricing he calculated the break even at 5 years just for the hardware and electricity. Assuming that calculation is right, two of everything would up that to 7+ years, at which point... a lot can happen in 7 years.
  - amluto 2y ago
    > I guess inexpensive is relative. I've been on cloud for a while so I'm not sure what the going rates are for "remote hands" and most of my experience is with on-premise vs co-lo. At a low end facility, I’ve usually paid between $0 and $50 per remote hands incident. The staff was friendly and competent, and I had no complaints. The price list goes a bit higher, but I haven’t needed those services at that facility.

amluto 2y ago

> Unless you have a full time person with physical access to your server who can go press buttons. Every colo facility I’ve used offers “remote hands”. If you need a button pressed or a disk swapped, they will do it, with a fee structure and response time that varies depending on one’s arrangement with the operator. But it’s generally both inexpensive and fast. > What about hardware loss? You need backups regardless. On the cloud when a HDD dies you provision a new one. On premise you need to have the replacement there and ready to swap out (unless you want to wait for shipping). Two of everything may still be cheaper than expensive cloud services. But there’s an obvious middle ground: a service contract that guarantees you spare parts and a technician with a designated amount of notice. This service is widely available and reasonably priced. (Don’t believe the listed total prices on the web sites of big name server vendors — they negotiate substantial discounts, even in small quantities.)

throwaway2016a 2y ago
> But it’s generally both inexpensive and fast. I guess inexpensive is relative. I've been on cloud for a while so I'm not sure what the going rates are for "remote hands" and most of my experience is with on-premise vs co-lo. > Two of everything may still be cheaper than expensive cloud services. That is true. Everything has tradeoffs. Though in the OPs case I think the math is relatively clear. With Open AIs pricing he calculated the break even at 5 years just for the hardware and electricity. Assuming that calculation is right, two of everything would up that to 7+ years, at which point... a lot can happen in 7 years.
- amluto 2y ago
  > I guess inexpensive is relative. I've been on cloud for a while so I'm not sure what the going rates are for "remote hands" and most of my experience is with on-premise vs co-lo. At a low end facility, I’ve usually paid between $0 and $50 per remote hands incident. The staff was friendly and competent, and I had no complaints. The price list goes a bit higher, but I haven’t needed those services at that facility.