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But why would anyone buy a phone upfront when you can get them subsidized by the carrier with data and talk? I end up paying the same after 22 months but I also

But why would anyone buy a phone upfront when you can get them subsidized by the carrier with data and talk? I end up paying the same after 22 months but I also get more. Last phone I bought upfront was 20 years ago when WAP was still a thing.

jonathantf2 2y ago
Because then the carrier charge about 10x what they'd charge a SIM only customer for the data, and it usually ends up costing more for the handset going through finance than buying it outright
- unpopularopp 2y ago
  > going through finance I’m in Hungary not Germany and there is no financing if you buy it from carrier. Price / 22 months (or 24) and that’s it. There is no APR or such. In fact I get it cheaper because I also get data and talk.
  - alamortsubite 2y ago
    Not many of us are in Hungary. In the U.S., financing the phone almost always makes more sense (especially lately, in light of inflation). There are some plans here like yours, however. I'm on Google Fi and it's the same. Like your setup, by paying in monthly installments (with no finance fees) I also received device insurance at no cost. I would have purchased the phone outright up front, but it made no financial sense to do so. I don't understand any of it, except consumers here seem only to think in terms of how much they can afford per month, rather than how much they can afford (overall). Decades of cheap credit, I guess.
  - washadjeffmad 2y ago
    In the US, subsidizing phones was a scheme that locked customers into expensive "buy out" scenarios where large, incumbent carriers could act like cartels. Customers could get a "$1000" phone for effectively free on contract (the discount contingent on completing the 2 or 3 year contract, but with an option to "upgrade" the phone and renew the contract every year). To exit the plan, the "discount" was revoked, and the remaining value of the phone, which was often 80% of its MSRP, had to be paid off in full. These phones were also required to be "carrier locked" (unable to be moved to another network, of which there are many in the US), installed with a carrier firmware that limited features, forced to run carrier apps and software, and were often stuck on the major OS version they were purchased with. Even high-end phones became effectively useless before their functional lives ended. I think the EU didn't put up with this, but the US only much more relatively recently established similar rights and protections for cellular customers.
MissTake 2y ago
Because not everyone has access to those sorts of plans. In addition such plans, when they are available, invariably lock you in for a set period committing you to regular payments. Either that or the “free phone” is paid back out of the term of the contract thus still requiring you to pay full price at the get go. This is how it goes, at least here in the USA.
lxgr 2y ago
What do you think carriers subsidize phones from, if not the implicit surcharge embedded into vastly overpriced and inflexible long-term contracts? I’ve bought every iPhone I’ve owned without a contract both in Europe and the US and have come out ahead after 24 months every single time. I don’t think Apple actually sells them to carriers at a meaningful discount vs. retail. If they do, that makes it an even worse deal.

jonathantf2 2y ago

Because then the carrier charge about 10x what they'd charge a SIM only customer for the data, and it usually ends up costing more for the handset going through finance than buying it outright

unpopularopp 2y ago
> going through finance I’m in Hungary not Germany and there is no financing if you buy it from carrier. Price / 22 months (or 24) and that’s it. There is no APR or such. In fact I get it cheaper because I also get data and talk.
- alamortsubite 2y ago
  Not many of us are in Hungary. In the U.S., financing the phone almost always makes more sense (especially lately, in light of inflation). There are some plans here like yours, however. I'm on Google Fi and it's the same. Like your setup, by paying in monthly installments (with no finance fees) I also received device insurance at no cost. I would have purchased the phone outright up front, but it made no financial sense to do so. I don't understand any of it, except consumers here seem only to think in terms of how much they can afford per month, rather than how much they can afford (overall). Decades of cheap credit, I guess.
- washadjeffmad 2y ago
  In the US, subsidizing phones was a scheme that locked customers into expensive "buy out" scenarios where large, incumbent carriers could act like cartels. Customers could get a "$1000" phone for effectively free on contract (the discount contingent on completing the 2 or 3 year contract, but with an option to "upgrade" the phone and renew the contract every year). To exit the plan, the "discount" was revoked, and the remaining value of the phone, which was often 80% of its MSRP, had to be paid off in full. These phones were also required to be "carrier locked" (unable to be moved to another network, of which there are many in the US), installed with a carrier firmware that limited features, forced to run carrier apps and software, and were often stuck on the major OS version they were purchased with. Even high-end phones became effectively useless before their functional lives ended. I think the EU didn't put up with this, but the US only much more relatively recently established similar rights and protections for cellular customers.

MissTake 2y ago

Because not everyone has access to those sorts of plans. In addition such plans, when they are available, invariably lock you in for a set period committing you to regular payments. Either that or the “free phone” is paid back out of the term of the contract thus still requiring you to pay full price at the get go. This is how it goes, at least here in the USA.

lxgr 2y ago

What do you think carriers subsidize phones from, if not the implicit surcharge embedded into vastly overpriced and inflexible long-term contracts? I’ve bought every iPhone I’ve owned without a contract both in Europe and the US and have come out ahead after 24 months every single time. I don’t think Apple actually sells them to carriers at a meaningful discount vs. retail. If they do, that makes it an even worse deal.