4 ms·

Otoh, the scripting languages generate so much less code that many systems just aren't "large" in them... If I understand your position, the only thing really

by berntb 14y ago

Otoh, the scripting languages generate so much less code that many systems just aren't "large" in them... If I understand your position, the only thing really needed should be optional typing of parameters (and possibly variables) that are expanded to assert statements on compiling? And editor support for that typing, of course, to get popups with calling profiles? There is something in Perl [1], I don't know about Python. Write a PEP. :-) [1] Method::Signatures@CPAN, et al http://search.cpan.org/~barefoot/Method-Signatures/lib/Method/Signatures.pm http://search.cpan.org/~barefoot/Method-Signatures/lib/Metho... Edit: Basic English grammar, sigh.

mickeyp 14y ago
True, but large systems are just, well, large. I'm not thinking startup land here, but entrenched applications in bigger businesses that grow organically to meet the need of the business. Python 3 does have type annotations for use by linting tools, but it'll be another 5-6 years before we'll see that filter down into the current Python ecosystem. And even then, it's only as good as the weakest (non-annotated) piece of code. Retrofitting libraries and existing code will bring about its own issues: how do you accurately hint to linters, in a language that encourages duck typing, the type a method parameter is likely to take?
- berntb 14y ago
  >>how do you accurately hint to linters, in a language that encourages duck typing, the type a method parameter is likely to take? You didn't check the Method::Signatures link or do I misunderstand your position? Also check Moose@CPAN, which have typing of object attributes. It isn't like a fully typed language, but it should help a lot. Edit: Link discussing type checking of attributes in Perl. Should be possible to have something similar in other dynamic languages? http://search.cpan.org/~doy/Moose-2.0602/lib/Moose/Util/TypeConstraints.pm http://search.cpan.org/~doy/Moose-2.0602/lib/Moose/Util/Type... Edit: Please check the links and see if Perl solves your problems? I am curious. (-: Writing a PEP to get something similar into Python is optional. :-)
  - mickeyp 14y ago
    I didn't look, tbh. Python 3 already has type annotations, but what interests me if how do you nail down types whilst preserving duck typing, or dealing with a method that is already passed duck typed objects.
    - berntb 14y ago
      I'm not going to copy/paste the content/source from links I've given. :-) (There are easy-to-read abstracts/"synopsis" at the start of both pages.)
- regularfry 14y ago
  I'd have thought that taking a leaf out of Go's book and having passively-defined interfaces would be a useful concept for linter hints.

by berntb 14y ago

mickeyp 14y ago

True, but large systems are just, well, large. I'm not thinking startup land here, but entrenched applications in bigger businesses that grow organically to meet the need of the business. Python 3 does have type annotations for use by linting tools, but it'll be another 5-6 years before we'll see that filter down into the current Python ecosystem. And even then, it's only as good as the weakest (non-annotated) piece of code. Retrofitting libraries and existing code will bring about its own issues: how do you accurately hint to linters, in a language that encourages duck typing, the type a method parameter is likely to take?

berntb 14y ago
>>how do you accurately hint to linters, in a language that encourages duck typing, the type a method parameter is likely to take? You didn't check the Method::Signatures link or do I misunderstand your position? Also check Moose@CPAN, which have typing of object attributes. It isn't like a fully typed language, but it should help a lot. Edit: Link discussing type checking of attributes in Perl. Should be possible to have something similar in other dynamic languages? http://search.cpan.org/~doy/Moose-2.0602/lib/Moose/Util/TypeConstraints.pm http://search.cpan.org/~doy/Moose-2.0602/lib/Moose/Util/Type... Edit: Please check the links and see if Perl solves your problems? I am curious. (-: Writing a PEP to get something similar into Python is optional. :-)
- mickeyp 14y ago
  I didn't look, tbh. Python 3 already has type annotations, but what interests me if how do you nail down types whilst preserving duck typing, or dealing with a method that is already passed duck typed objects.
  - berntb 14y ago
    I'm not going to copy/paste the content/source from links I've given. :-) (There are easy-to-read abstracts/"synopsis" at the start of both pages.)
regularfry 14y ago
I'd have thought that taking a leaf out of Go's book and having passively-defined interfaces would be a useful concept for linter hints.