5 ms·

At this rate of headlines, The Grauniad will be shutting their app and web servers down shortly and moving back to movable type and newspaper boys covered in so

by cjk2 2y ago

At this rate of headlines, The Grauniad will be shutting their app and web servers down shortly and moving back to movable type and newspaper boys covered in soot. My phone helps gets me to places I can go and touch things. And take photos with it. It's just a tool. Encourage those uses. It's not the device, it's the users' choice in how they use it.

ethbr1 2y ago
Cocaine is a tool too.
- eimrine 2y ago
  Dear SJWs, stop downvoting the parental post if you just don't know the mentioned substance is a really good local anesthetic with short but powerful effect and having close to zero post-effects after a singular use.
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    I appreciate your appreciating my targeted metaphor. <3
fergonco 2y ago
Technology enters because it's useful. Stays because it's addictive. You can praise all good usages of technology. Then you make a pie chart of real usages and the biggest piece of the cake will be porn, violent content, etc.
mrjh 2y ago
If you've never picked up your phone to do one thing and half an hour later found yourself trawling through Instagram, having forgotten what you originally meant to do with your "just a tool", you are in a tiny minority of incredibly focused people. The majority of us, through no fault of our own, find these 'tools' regularly sucking us into a vortex of distractions and time-wasting. The struggle against cheap dopamine hits is real.
- redeeman 2y ago
  > you are in a tiny minority of incredibly focused people. oh please... > The majority of us, through no fault of our own it is called "personal accountability", I know its very hated on in the modern world, but please... > The struggle against cheap dopamine hits is real Yeah.. try go back 500 years or 1000 years and explain your struggles to the people there.
  - LoganDark 2y ago
    > > The majority of us, through no fault of our own > it is called "personal accountability", I know its very hated on in the modern world, but please... Look, I get the point you're trying to make, but as stated, this is incredibly insensitive. There are plenty of scenarios where someone should be held personally accountable for getting distracted or losing time, but this is not one of them. It's entirely possible and quite common for certain kinds of content to trick and manipulate the brain. It's not their personal fault for falling victim, just as it's not someone's personal fault for getting robbed. Plus, not everyone can focus or resist distractions the same. Not everyone can expect to even be able to. Many people who suffer from ADHD, for example, have a particularly hard time with this.
    - danielbln 2y ago
      I get the feeling OP is one of those who tells people with depression to just stop feeling sad...
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - redeeman 2y ago
        you are wrong, I am however one of those people who say that if you are allergic to peanuts, you do not get to scream "make peanuts illegal", but you instead accept that you have a task of making sure what you stuff your face with does not contain peanuts.
namaria 2y ago
Not acknowledging the dark patterns and the addictive economics of free apps and the advertisement economy is disingenuous. I'm glad your iron will isn't affected but pretending like there isn't a huge societal problem because it doesn't affect you is just arrogant.
- redeeman 2y ago
  theres a problem because people have been raised to be idiots in front of the pictocube.
  - d3w3y 2y ago
    So you admit that technology is inherently harmful to human beings' cognitive development?
sumtechguy 2y ago
> It's not the device, it's the users' choice in how they use it. This right here. But I take it in a different way. That tool is mine. I get to chose how it is used. Advertisers seem to think they own some of my time to get 'free things'. Application makers seem to think they own some of my time to try to get more money out of me thru the use of dark patterns. The phone companies seem to think they own some of my time and sell my data because I pay them. Other people seem to think they own my time because I have the thing and should be on call 24/7 whenever they want to get ahold of me. When they first came up with the idea of the current smart phone. It was really cool. Then I have realized that everyone is using it to grab my time from me. All of them seem to get mad when I set the thing down on a table somewhere and ignore it and enjoy the things I want to do.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  I apportion blame a bit differently. App makers (and mobile phone companies) are competitive marketplaces with alternatives. They're trying to find viable business models to fund feature development and make a profit. Can't fault them for that: users can pick another option. Who I can fault is mobile OS/platform owners. It's a duopoly, and they've repeatedly and strategically made user-hostile decisions that strip choice away from mobile device owners. All of the ills you mentioned wouldn't be ills if OS features enabled user control of them. Google is obviously the more egregious (user freedom features and need to boost quarterly profits are inversely related), but I don't think Apple would be taking a pro-privacy stance if it conflicted with their business model and they didn't see it as a strategic differentiator.
mrweasel 2y ago
The article have an ad for a cooking app, by The Guardian it think. Seems a little out of place on an article like this.

by cjk2 2y ago

ethbr1 2y ago

Cocaine is a tool too.

eimrine 2y ago
Dear SJWs, stop downvoting the parental post if you just don't know the mentioned substance is a really good local anesthetic with short but powerful effect and having close to zero post-effects after a singular use.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  I appreciate your appreciating my targeted metaphor. <3

fergonco 2y ago

Technology enters because it's useful. Stays because it's addictive. You can praise all good usages of technology. Then you make a pie chart of real usages and the biggest piece of the cake will be porn, violent content, etc.

mrjh 2y ago

If you've never picked up your phone to do one thing and half an hour later found yourself trawling through Instagram, having forgotten what you originally meant to do with your "just a tool", you are in a tiny minority of incredibly focused people. The majority of us, through no fault of our own, find these 'tools' regularly sucking us into a vortex of distractions and time-wasting. The struggle against cheap dopamine hits is real.

redeeman 2y ago
> you are in a tiny minority of incredibly focused people. oh please... > The majority of us, through no fault of our own it is called "personal accountability", I know its very hated on in the modern world, but please... > The struggle against cheap dopamine hits is real Yeah.. try go back 500 years or 1000 years and explain your struggles to the people there.
- LoganDark 2y ago
  > > The majority of us, through no fault of our own > it is called "personal accountability", I know its very hated on in the modern world, but please... Look, I get the point you're trying to make, but as stated, this is incredibly insensitive. There are plenty of scenarios where someone should be held personally accountable for getting distracted or losing time, but this is not one of them. It's entirely possible and quite common for certain kinds of content to trick and manipulate the brain. It's not their personal fault for falling victim, just as it's not someone's personal fault for getting robbed. Plus, not everyone can focus or resist distractions the same. Not everyone can expect to even be able to. Many people who suffer from ADHD, for example, have a particularly hard time with this.
  - danielbln 2y ago
    I get the feeling OP is one of those who tells people with depression to just stop feeling sad...
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - redeeman 2y ago
      you are wrong, I am however one of those people who say that if you are allergic to peanuts, you do not get to scream "make peanuts illegal", but you instead accept that you have a task of making sure what you stuff your face with does not contain peanuts.

namaria 2y ago

Not acknowledging the dark patterns and the addictive economics of free apps and the advertisement economy is disingenuous. I'm glad your iron will isn't affected but pretending like there isn't a huge societal problem because it doesn't affect you is just arrogant.

redeeman 2y ago
theres a problem because people have been raised to be idiots in front of the pictocube.
- d3w3y 2y ago
  So you admit that technology is inherently harmful to human beings' cognitive development?

sumtechguy 2y ago

> It's not the device, it's the users' choice in how they use it. This right here. But I take it in a different way. That tool is mine. I get to chose how it is used. Advertisers seem to think they own some of my time to get 'free things'. Application makers seem to think they own some of my time to try to get more money out of me thru the use of dark patterns. The phone companies seem to think they own some of my time and sell my data because I pay them. Other people seem to think they own my time because I have the thing and should be on call 24/7 whenever they want to get ahold of me. When they first came up with the idea of the current smart phone. It was really cool. Then I have realized that everyone is using it to grab my time from me. All of them seem to get mad when I set the thing down on a table somewhere and ignore it and enjoy the things I want to do.

ethbr1 2y ago
I apportion blame a bit differently. App makers (and mobile phone companies) are competitive marketplaces with alternatives. They're trying to find viable business models to fund feature development and make a profit. Can't fault them for that: users can pick another option. Who I can fault is mobile OS/platform owners. It's a duopoly, and they've repeatedly and strategically made user-hostile decisions that strip choice away from mobile device owners. All of the ills you mentioned wouldn't be ills if OS features enabled user control of them. Google is obviously the more egregious (user freedom features and need to boost quarterly profits are inversely related), but I don't think Apple would be taking a pro-privacy stance if it conflicted with their business model and they didn't see it as a strategic differentiator.

mrweasel 2y ago

The article have an ad for a cooking app, by The Guardian it think. Seems a little out of place on an article like this.