5 ms·

I swear the “plastic straw” argument is the absolute literal straw man argument. The EU didn’t outlaw “plastic straws”, it outlawed a range of things, one of w

I swear the “plastic straw” argument is the absolute literal straw man argument. The EU didn’t outlaw “plastic straws”, it outlawed a range of things, one of which is the plastic straw. But then why do plastic straws always come up? Because this is also in response to a video of a turtle in pain with a plastic straw up its nose (so yes it did end up in the ocean). And creating less single use products is a step of waste management by the way. Now I’m not particularly in favour of paper straws, but bamboo straws have taken off as a replacement and that’s a rather good thing I would say. But again this is only about straws because you made it about straws. The same applies to many other single use plastics.

exe34 2y ago
If you left his plastic straw alone, he wouldn't have to make it about straws, would he? Now all he has is a soggy paper straw that he got from a plastic wrapping.
sva_ 2y ago
> so yes it did end up in the ocean It was a European plastic straw? Was there an address on it, or how can you tell? The point the person you responded to was making wasn't about plastic straws, but rather about the fact that European trash almost never lands in the ocean: https://ourworldindata.org/ocean-plastics https://ourworldindata.org/ocean-plastics
konschubert 2y ago
It’s not a strawman because the EU actually did rule out plastic straws. And as a parent, I can assure you that I get reminded of this on a weekly basis.
- Viliam1234 2y ago
  As a parent in EU, I bought the reusable silicone straws, those are available and kids don't mind.
cc81 2y ago
Plastic straws come because the replacements tend to be bad (even if I assume they have gotten better over time).
- matthewdgreen 2y ago
  The way to make their replacements even better over time is to discourage use of plastic. So this seems like a pretty good policy, even if there is a tiny bit of (the world’s most minor amount of) pain during the transition. We should ban more single-use plastic.
  - aardvarkr 2y ago
    In order to not go soggy so quickly many paper straws are pfas coated. Then this ends up in the environment.
  - lukan 2y ago
    "We should ban more single-use plastic." We should ban more single-use non biodegradable plastic. I like the single use biodegradable plastic bag for example, where I can have the organic compost inside, so less mess everywhere. Those should be standard. But currently they are way more expensive. Standard plastic from oil is cheap.
    - sandos 2y ago
      Wait, a _standard plastic bag_ for compost? Why not, you know, paper?
      - lukan 2y ago
        Because paper leaks? And this type of plastic does not. After some months it will, but that is the idea.
  - flurdy 2y ago
    I just buy a bunch of these biodegradable PLA straws instead. They work well https://amzn.eu/d/dKIyKxE https://amzn.eu/d/dKIyKxE. Not missed the old plastic straws apart from when at a burger joint that gives you the useless paper ones. The bagasse and PLA straws do not disintegrate as quickly and work as well as the old ones. Whether they are actually more environmentally friendly is another discussion.
MrBuddyCasino 2y ago
> it did end up in the ocean How would you feel if you didn’t have breakfast this morning?
sirsinsalot 2y ago
I order to not go soggy so quickly many paper straws are pfas coated. Then this ends up in the environment.
- wussboy 2y ago
  Ffs please tell me you are joking
edgyquant 2y ago
Because plastic straws are something that people run into frequently so when they are gone it’s very noticeable to everyone
infecto 2y ago
I don't think its a straw man so much as the alternatives to plastic straws are worse. One of those short-sighted policies that ends up being worse.
- timeon 2y ago
  No-straw alternative is not worse.
  - infecto 2y ago
    That is not what happened though so its a fairy tale outcome.
MarkusWandel 2y ago
Paper straws are some of the worst "greenwashing" I've ever seen. I most frequently encounter them for McDonalds drinks, where the cup and lid are solid plastic, but the straw whose weight (in plastic) would have been maybe 2-3% of the whole assembly has been replaced with something that invariably goes soggy before the drink is finished. Meanwhile at the grocery store I see boxes of... straws. As in, actual straw, the original material. Haven't encountered those in actual use yet, though.

exe34 2y ago

If you left his plastic straw alone, he wouldn't have to make it about straws, would he? Now all he has is a soggy paper straw that he got from a plastic wrapping.

sva_ 2y ago

> so yes it did end up in the ocean It was a European plastic straw? Was there an address on it, or how can you tell? The point the person you responded to was making wasn't about plastic straws, but rather about the fact that European trash almost never lands in the ocean: https://ourworldindata.org/ocean-plastics https://ourworldindata.org/ocean-plastics

konschubert 2y ago

It’s not a strawman because the EU actually did rule out plastic straws. And as a parent, I can assure you that I get reminded of this on a weekly basis.

Viliam1234 2y ago
As a parent in EU, I bought the reusable silicone straws, those are available and kids don't mind.

cc81 2y ago

Plastic straws come because the replacements tend to be bad (even if I assume they have gotten better over time).

matthewdgreen 2y ago
The way to make their replacements even better over time is to discourage use of plastic. So this seems like a pretty good policy, even if there is a tiny bit of (the world’s most minor amount of) pain during the transition. We should ban more single-use plastic.
- aardvarkr 2y ago
  In order to not go soggy so quickly many paper straws are pfas coated. Then this ends up in the environment.
- lukan 2y ago
  "We should ban more single-use plastic." We should ban more single-use non biodegradable plastic. I like the single use biodegradable plastic bag for example, where I can have the organic compost inside, so less mess everywhere. Those should be standard. But currently they are way more expensive. Standard plastic from oil is cheap.
  - sandos 2y ago
    Wait, a _standard plastic bag_ for compost? Why not, you know, paper?
    - lukan 2y ago
      Because paper leaks? And this type of plastic does not. After some months it will, but that is the idea.
- flurdy 2y ago
  I just buy a bunch of these biodegradable PLA straws instead. They work well https://amzn.eu/d/dKIyKxE https://amzn.eu/d/dKIyKxE. Not missed the old plastic straws apart from when at a burger joint that gives you the useless paper ones. The bagasse and PLA straws do not disintegrate as quickly and work as well as the old ones. Whether they are actually more environmentally friendly is another discussion.

MrBuddyCasino 2y ago

> it did end up in the ocean How would you feel if you didn’t have breakfast this morning?

sirsinsalot 2y ago

I order to not go soggy so quickly many paper straws are pfas coated. Then this ends up in the environment.

wussboy 2y ago
Ffs please tell me you are joking

edgyquant 2y ago

Because plastic straws are something that people run into frequently so when they are gone it’s very noticeable to everyone

infecto 2y ago

I don't think its a straw man so much as the alternatives to plastic straws are worse. One of those short-sighted policies that ends up being worse.

timeon 2y ago
No-straw alternative is not worse.
- infecto 2y ago
  That is not what happened though so its a fairy tale outcome.

MarkusWandel 2y ago

Paper straws are some of the worst "greenwashing" I've ever seen. I most frequently encounter them for McDonalds drinks, where the cup and lid are solid plastic, but the straw whose weight (in plastic) would have been maybe 2-3% of the whole assembly has been replaced with something that invariably goes soggy before the drink is finished. Meanwhile at the grocery store I see boxes of... straws. As in, actual straw, the original material. Haven't encountered those in actual use yet, though.