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I appreciate the thoughtful response! > I didn't write the above to try to dissuade anyone from choosing a FOSS software forge, merely to acknowledge that ther

I appreciate the thoughtful response! > I didn't write the above to try to dissuade anyone from choosing a FOSS software forge, merely to acknowledge that there is no obvious good choice that any given FOSS project should choose. All three of the forges that can claim to compete with GitHub have pretty substantial red flags for their long-term viability, and I can sympathize with any project deciding that they'd rather go with the simplest option. I posted mostly to discourage this particular opinion. IMHO there is a clear choice — at the very least between GitLab and GitHub in this conversation, especially in with the F/OSS consideration. Maybe it’s better to flip the question — what makes you trust Microsoft more than GitLab in this situation?

lolinder 2y ago
> Maybe it’s better to flip the question — what makes you trust Microsoft more than GitLab in this situation? There's exactly one way in which I trust Microsoft more, but it's important: I believe that they are less likely to pull the rug out from under us. Not that they won't, but they're less likely to. GitHub seems to have found a favorable business model and is enjoying its status as the destination for all source code. We might not like how they pull that off or what they do with the data they have, but they've been a stable platform for years now without any signs of removing features or privileges that people rely on. GitLab, on the other hand, has made numerous shifts over recent years, eliminating or vastly curtailing their free tiers and pushing more and more of their development effort out of the open core and into the enterprise portion of the product. After the sheer number of changes they've made to their SaaS offering I wouldn't trust GitLab's hosted offering to stay stable for the next 10 years. If you're self-hosting this is less of an issue, but I frankly also don't trust GitLab to not start playing the same games that so many companies have been playing lately and pull out of true open source entirely. If security updates ever stop, and I see that as a real possibility, we'll have to migrate anyway. So this is why I sympathize with people choosing GitHub: it's been stable for a very long time and shows every sign of staying that way, while the other offerings are clearly in flux.
- hardwaresofton 2y ago
  > There's exactly one way in which I trust Microsoft more, but it's important: I believe that they are less likely to pull the rug out from under us. Not that they won't, but they're less likely to. This I agree with in some sense! There are just so many people standing on the rug that it's a harder pull in total. That said, I do think that it's easier for them to make small changes that extract value. GitLab always has a nuclear option (at least for now) -- you can run the F/OSS version (and if you don't want to, you can find someone to run it for you which also grows the ecosystem). > without any signs of removing features or privileges that people rely on. This I doubt... But nothing comes to mind immediately so I'll bite my tongue! > GitLab, on the other hand, has made numerous shifts over recent years, eliminating or vastly curtailing their free tiers and pushing more and more of their development effort out of the open core and into the enterprise portion of the product. After the sheer number of changes they've made to their SaaS offering I wouldn't trust GitLab's hosted offering to stay stable for the next 10 years. > > If you're self-hosting this is less of an issue, but I frankly also don't trust GitLab to not start playing the same games that so many companies have been playing lately and pull out of true open source entirely. If security updates ever stop, and I see that as a real possibility, we'll have to migrate anyway. > > So this is why I sympathize with people choosing GitHub: it's been stable for a very long time and shows every sign of staying that way, while the other offerings are clearly in flux. So I disagree about GitLab (and there's the simple fact that it an be forked/actually is F/OSS), but thanks for the explanation here, I see how you got to where you stand -- when I think of GitLab's changes I just think of them trying to find a way to sustain their income/the thing that lets them push the F/OSS forward, but I totally get seeing it the other way and being tired of the shifting companies have been going through!

lolinder 2y ago

> Maybe it’s better to flip the question — what makes you trust Microsoft more than GitLab in this situation? There's exactly one way in which I trust Microsoft more, but it's important: I believe that they are less likely to pull the rug out from under us. Not that they won't, but they're less likely to. GitHub seems to have found a favorable business model and is enjoying its status as the destination for all source code. We might not like how they pull that off or what they do with the data they have, but they've been a stable platform for years now without any signs of removing features or privileges that people rely on. GitLab, on the other hand, has made numerous shifts over recent years, eliminating or vastly curtailing their free tiers and pushing more and more of their development effort out of the open core and into the enterprise portion of the product. After the sheer number of changes they've made to their SaaS offering I wouldn't trust GitLab's hosted offering to stay stable for the next 10 years. If you're self-hosting this is less of an issue, but I frankly also don't trust GitLab to not start playing the same games that so many companies have been playing lately and pull out of true open source entirely. If security updates ever stop, and I see that as a real possibility, we'll have to migrate anyway. So this is why I sympathize with people choosing GitHub: it's been stable for a very long time and shows every sign of staying that way, while the other offerings are clearly in flux.

hardwaresofton 2y ago
> There's exactly one way in which I trust Microsoft more, but it's important: I believe that they are less likely to pull the rug out from under us. Not that they won't, but they're less likely to. This I agree with in some sense! There are just so many people standing on the rug that it's a harder pull in total. That said, I do think that it's easier for them to make small changes that extract value. GitLab always has a nuclear option (at least for now) -- you can run the F/OSS version (and if you don't want to, you can find someone to run it for you which also grows the ecosystem). > without any signs of removing features or privileges that people rely on. This I doubt... But nothing comes to mind immediately so I'll bite my tongue! > GitLab, on the other hand, has made numerous shifts over recent years, eliminating or vastly curtailing their free tiers and pushing more and more of their development effort out of the open core and into the enterprise portion of the product. After the sheer number of changes they've made to their SaaS offering I wouldn't trust GitLab's hosted offering to stay stable for the next 10 years. > > If you're self-hosting this is less of an issue, but I frankly also don't trust GitLab to not start playing the same games that so many companies have been playing lately and pull out of true open source entirely. If security updates ever stop, and I see that as a real possibility, we'll have to migrate anyway. > > So this is why I sympathize with people choosing GitHub: it's been stable for a very long time and shows every sign of staying that way, while the other offerings are clearly in flux. So I disagree about GitLab (and there's the simple fact that it an be forked/actually is F/OSS), but thanks for the explanation here, I see how you got to where you stand -- when I think of GitLab's changes I just think of them trying to find a way to sustain their income/the thing that lets them push the F/OSS forward, but I totally get seeing it the other way and being tired of the shifting companies have been going through!