4 ms·

Go on, give them some credit... they signed a deal with Russia to divide Eastern Europe, financed Russian wars, destroyed stability of Europe by forcing idiotic

Go on, give them some credit... they signed a deal with Russia to divide Eastern Europe, financed Russian wars, destroyed stability of Europe by forcing idiotic policies, and allowed rise of far right at home. That's something...

AllegedAlec 2y ago
They're currently more succesful in fucking up Europe than during their French camping trip in 1939.
netsharc 2y ago
Points 1 and 2 sound like the ravings of a lunatic, but I can agree with points 3 and 4, however unplanned it was by the rulers. Merkel and her finance minister Wolfgang Schäuble were stupid believers in running a country/continent like a family or factory (micro- instead of macroeconomics). If you're in debt, you gotta save. With the Euro crisis and PIIGS (anyone here old enough to remember PIIGS?) inflation problem (caused by the currency pegging masked as a single currency, btw), the continent had a lot of problems. And so Merkel as the de-facto ruler of the EU told everyone to cut social services, social benefits, etc, instead of doing stimulus packages like the Obama admin. The results were more unemployment and destitution, even suicides[1]. And when Merkel decided to show her humane side and allowed Syrians to settle in Germany, it was morally a great move which I agree (how can we call ourselves human if we refuse shelter to humans who are being shot at and bombed - well one way to do it is to not treat them as humans and classify them in our brains, all of them, as cowards (for running away instead of fighting) and lazy benefits-seekers)), but of course for the average Joe European who's been told for many years "There's no money, we have to save", to suddenly hear "We're a prosperous continent, we can do it.", this sounds like a huge truckload of shit. And the half-hearted policy of just sticking these refugees in makeshift camps and probably no budget in proper integration (and TBH, there's probably lazy refugees too, but then again, wouldn't you lose motivation against bureaucracies that don't let you work, confuse you in a language/culture foreign to yours, etc, even though you fought your way out of a warzone on a precarious journey) didn't make it any better. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/health-27796628 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-27796628
- surfingdino 2y ago
  Let me introduce you to this fine German politician https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der who "Since leaving public office, Schröder has worked for Russian state-owned energy companies, including Nord Stream AG, Rosneft, and Gazprom. (...) He was chairman of the board of Nord Stream AG and of Rosneft but in 2022 resigned from the latter and opted not to join the board of Russian state-run gas company Gazprom. (...) In his last days in office in 2005 he signed a deal between Germany and Russian state-owned Gazprom to build Nord Stream 1 before leaving office and almost immediately joining the pipeline company’s board." A politician of his calibre cannot function without an extensive support network and connections across the political spectrum. There were a lot of people helping him. It was and still is a broad, cross-party support based on the German Ostpolitik from 1970s. That gives him and the people around him a lot of influence over German and European politics. The Nord Stream deal was designed to make Europe dependent on Russian natural resources and weaken position of Eastern Europe. It was opposed by Eastern European countries who saw it quite rightly as the next Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pac... in disguise. But even if we discard their opinions, here's a document prepared by the European Parliament in 2008 https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2004_2009/documents/dv/afet_01042008_security/afet_01042008_securityen.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2004_2009/documents/... Nobody in Europe was fooled by Russians, but German politicians could not or did not want to hear it. Germans kept rejecting all Eastern European objections to the deal and other decisions that followed, including Nord Stream 2. German politicians crossed the line and began implementing Russian foreign policy in Europe. In 20214 Ukraine paid the price of German Ostpolitik. Here's a good summary of how Germany played this game: https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-inc-played-russian-roulette-and-lost-ukraine-war-energy-gas-trade/ https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-inc-played-russian-r... and here's an early summary of Germany's behaviour https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/osw-commentary/2014-04-03/german-reaction-to-russian-ukrainian-conflict-shock-and https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/osw-commentary/2014-04-... And recently, this information came to light https://www.yahoo.com/news/angela-merkel-concealed-information-russia-174619023.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/angela-merkel-concealed-informati... You cannot have united Europe with a significant member undermining its principles by making it dependent on energy supplies from an aggressive enemy and being an advocate of the enemy's interests. German politicians are compromised to the point where they just cannot see how compromised they are.

AllegedAlec 2y ago

They're currently more succesful in fucking up Europe than during their French camping trip in 1939.

netsharc 2y ago

Points 1 and 2 sound like the ravings of a lunatic, but I can agree with points 3 and 4, however unplanned it was by the rulers. Merkel and her finance minister Wolfgang Schäuble were stupid believers in running a country/continent like a family or factory (micro- instead of macroeconomics). If you're in debt, you gotta save. With the Euro crisis and PIIGS (anyone here old enough to remember PIIGS?) inflation problem (caused by the currency pegging masked as a single currency, btw), the continent had a lot of problems. And so Merkel as the de-facto ruler of the EU told everyone to cut social services, social benefits, etc, instead of doing stimulus packages like the Obama admin. The results were more unemployment and destitution, even suicides[1]. And when Merkel decided to show her humane side and allowed Syrians to settle in Germany, it was morally a great move which I agree (how can we call ourselves human if we refuse shelter to humans who are being shot at and bombed - well one way to do it is to not treat them as humans and classify them in our brains, all of them, as cowards (for running away instead of fighting) and lazy benefits-seekers)), but of course for the average Joe European who's been told for many years "There's no money, we have to save", to suddenly hear "We're a prosperous continent, we can do it.", this sounds like a huge truckload of shit. And the half-hearted policy of just sticking these refugees in makeshift camps and probably no budget in proper integration (and TBH, there's probably lazy refugees too, but then again, wouldn't you lose motivation against bureaucracies that don't let you work, confuse you in a language/culture foreign to yours, etc, even though you fought your way out of a warzone on a precarious journey) didn't make it any better. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/health-27796628 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-27796628

surfingdino 2y ago
Let me introduce you to this fine German politician https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der who "Since leaving public office, Schröder has worked for Russian state-owned energy companies, including Nord Stream AG, Rosneft, and Gazprom. (...) He was chairman of the board of Nord Stream AG and of Rosneft but in 2022 resigned from the latter and opted not to join the board of Russian state-run gas company Gazprom. (...) In his last days in office in 2005 he signed a deal between Germany and Russian state-owned Gazprom to build Nord Stream 1 before leaving office and almost immediately joining the pipeline company’s board." A politician of his calibre cannot function without an extensive support network and connections across the political spectrum. There were a lot of people helping him. It was and still is a broad, cross-party support based on the German Ostpolitik from 1970s. That gives him and the people around him a lot of influence over German and European politics. The Nord Stream deal was designed to make Europe dependent on Russian natural resources and weaken position of Eastern Europe. It was opposed by Eastern European countries who saw it quite rightly as the next Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pac... in disguise. But even if we discard their opinions, here's a document prepared by the European Parliament in 2008 https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2004_2009/documents/dv/afet_01042008_security/afet_01042008_securityen.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2004_2009/documents/... Nobody in Europe was fooled by Russians, but German politicians could not or did not want to hear it. Germans kept rejecting all Eastern European objections to the deal and other decisions that followed, including Nord Stream 2. German politicians crossed the line and began implementing Russian foreign policy in Europe. In 20214 Ukraine paid the price of German Ostpolitik. Here's a good summary of how Germany played this game: https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-inc-played-russian-roulette-and-lost-ukraine-war-energy-gas-trade/ https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-inc-played-russian-r... and here's an early summary of Germany's behaviour https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/osw-commentary/2014-04-03/german-reaction-to-russian-ukrainian-conflict-shock-and https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/osw-commentary/2014-04-... And recently, this information came to light https://www.yahoo.com/news/angela-merkel-concealed-information-russia-174619023.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/angela-merkel-concealed-informati... You cannot have united Europe with a significant member undermining its principles by making it dependent on energy supplies from an aggressive enemy and being an advocate of the enemy's interests. German politicians are compromised to the point where they just cannot see how compromised they are.