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The libertarian notion that taxes are extortion is frankly childish in how overly simplistic it is. You get all sorts of benefits in return for your taxes. You

The libertarian notion that taxes are extortion is frankly childish in how overly simplistic it is. You get all sorts of benefits in return for your taxes. You can't realistically opt out of them. You can't live without using roads or being defended by the military. You can't tell society at large that when you get hit by lightning that you want they to leave you to die and not call an ambulance Since you can't opt out, a nontaxpayer ends up being a freeloader and social parasite. The only just option is to have to contribute to the imperfect system The whole idea of extortion is premises that people can exist somehow outside of society which is disconnected from reality.. No man is an island

whywhywhywhy 2y ago
I agree libertarianism is a tad silly, but really are those "benefits" you list not paid for by inflation rather than taxes.
- arlort 2y ago
  > paid for by inflation rather than taxes How does inflation pay for services and infrastructure?
  - whywhywhywhy 2y ago
    Modern Monetary Theory, with the way it works it feels dishonest to claim taxes are paying for those things.
Lichtso 2y ago
The alternative to the current model is not to have no services at all, as that makes no sense, agreed. > The libertarian notion that taxes are extortion is frankly childish in how overly simplistic it is. The argument is weak because you constructed a straw man. The libertarian notion is not to live without any of the services provided by a state, but to have different providers which are in competition. The issue is that the state / gov has a monopoly but is exempt from antitrust laws. The implementation is tricky though because in reality, when functions of the state are privatized there is often a huge amount of lobbying and corruption involved and these functions are given to a small group of big companies which effectively form a cartel once again. Then they extract all the economic value left in the infrastructure, the privatization is declared failed and undone, effectively another channel of syphoning tax money into the hands of big companies.
- peoplefromibiza 2y ago
  > but to have different providers which are in competition it never worked in practice though. > has a monopoly but is exempt from antitrust laws because it does a mediocre job at many things, making it quite easy to compete against it when and if it's worth it, but provides those things no private entity would, because it's anti-economical. like, for example, the proverbial roads to nowhere.
jnordwick 2y ago
> nontaxpayer ends up being a freeloader and social parasite And you say the libertarians are childish and simplistic
- goodpoint 2y ago
  You just replied childish and simplistic comeback.
lettergram 2y ago
> The whole idea of extortion is premises that people can exist somehow outside of society which is disconnected from reality. Or people can agree to collaborate (like a church or workers union) without extortion of citizens. There’s plenty of examples where extortion isn’t necessary. I’m also not suggesting taxes shouldn’t be levied at all, I’m saying land and income taxes are particularly gross, as they misalign incentives. Like I said, the more civilized a civilization is, presumably the less protection people need, so we should pay less taxes. Similarly, the more civilized a civilization the more services can be provided by the private sector. The reverse trend is true for taxes, they charge more for less.

whywhywhywhy 2y ago

I agree libertarianism is a tad silly, but really are those "benefits" you list not paid for by inflation rather than taxes.

arlort 2y ago
> paid for by inflation rather than taxes How does inflation pay for services and infrastructure?
- whywhywhywhy 2y ago
  Modern Monetary Theory, with the way it works it feels dishonest to claim taxes are paying for those things.

Lichtso 2y ago

The alternative to the current model is not to have no services at all, as that makes no sense, agreed. > The libertarian notion that taxes are extortion is frankly childish in how overly simplistic it is. The argument is weak because you constructed a straw man. The libertarian notion is not to live without any of the services provided by a state, but to have different providers which are in competition. The issue is that the state / gov has a monopoly but is exempt from antitrust laws. The implementation is tricky though because in reality, when functions of the state are privatized there is often a huge amount of lobbying and corruption involved and these functions are given to a small group of big companies which effectively form a cartel once again. Then they extract all the economic value left in the infrastructure, the privatization is declared failed and undone, effectively another channel of syphoning tax money into the hands of big companies.

peoplefromibiza 2y ago
> but to have different providers which are in competition it never worked in practice though. > has a monopoly but is exempt from antitrust laws because it does a mediocre job at many things, making it quite easy to compete against it when and if it's worth it, but provides those things no private entity would, because it's anti-economical. like, for example, the proverbial roads to nowhere.

jnordwick 2y ago

> nontaxpayer ends up being a freeloader and social parasite And you say the libertarians are childish and simplistic

goodpoint 2y ago
You just replied childish and simplistic comeback.

lettergram 2y ago

> The whole idea of extortion is premises that people can exist somehow outside of society which is disconnected from reality. Or people can agree to collaborate (like a church or workers union) without extortion of citizens. There’s plenty of examples where extortion isn’t necessary. I’m also not suggesting taxes shouldn’t be levied at all, I’m saying land and income taxes are particularly gross, as they misalign incentives. Like I said, the more civilized a civilization is, presumably the less protection people need, so we should pay less taxes. Similarly, the more civilized a civilization the more services can be provided by the private sector. The reverse trend is true for taxes, they charge more for less.