4 ms·

Framing it as “the other side” is part of the problem. There are extremes on both sides, and Alex Jones, and the small faction of his followers who harassed th

by rlt 2y ago

Framing it as “the other side” is part of the problem. There are extremes on both sides, and Alex Jones, and the small faction of his followers who harassed the Sandy Hook parents, are about as extreme as it gets.

SonOfKyuss 2y ago
If you can’t see that one side has let the extremist faction become a mainstream voice of their movement, you’re part of the problem.
- reramuyc 2y ago
  lol... when you cant have a some discord show you are the problem
- chrismcb 2y ago
  Which side are you talking about?
  - DougN7 2y ago
    Seriously? Maybe I’m blind (and if so please point out what I’m missing) but I only see one side that: * seems to be increasing and supporting racism * has members trying to start a race war (see recent news) * has many members saying it’s time to arm and have a civil war and kill those that disagree (easy to find on Facebook) * increasingly encourages armed militias I see all of that on the extreme right. If it’s happening openly on the extreme left, I’d like to hear about it. For what it’s worth my views slant right, but MAGA and Trump destroyed the right party.
- hagbard_c 2y ago
  Yes, it is remarkable how much the 'democratic' party seems beholden to its extremist wing, this is likely to cost them dearly in the coming elections. By acting in ways they accuse the other side of doing they are losing their own more moderates as well as independents who either go to 'the other side' or vote for the 'third-party candidate'. I suspect this is more or less the opposite of what you were trying to say but that does not make it less true. It even fits with the pattern I mentioned before where 'democrats' accuse others of things they are doing themselves. From the 'threat to the democracy' via 'using the courts to attack opponents' this is all a matter of the pot calling the kettle black. Here's to hoping the upcoming elections end up mostly fair and square - no more shenanigans with mail-in ballots, no night-time counting sessions behind closed doors and for $deity's sake require the voters to identify themselves using some official ID like you need to buy a six-pack of beer and like is done in nearly all civilised countries. Make sure there is a paper trail, do not rely on electronic voting because that is not transparent enough for Joe Sixpack - and right he is. Preliminary results - from actual vote counts, not from exit polls - should be available on the same evening as the vote closes, there is no excuse for 2-3 week waiting periods.
  - bhj 2y ago
    > no more shenanigans with mail-in ballots Ludicrous. Remember how T**** told supporters to not use mail-in ballots[0], then tried to stop the counting of mail-in ballots? [1] Or told people to vote twice? [2] Yes, one party is demonstrably more anti-democracy than the other. As for your voter fraud FUD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_lawsuits_related_to_the_2020_U.S._presidential_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_lawsuits_related... [0] https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/trumps-repeated-false-attacks-on-mail-in-ballots/ https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/trumps-repeated-false-atta... [1] https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4920640/user-clip-donald-trump-attempt-stop-counting-votes-ahead https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4920640/user-clip-donald-trum... [2] https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article245460825.html https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/articl...
LastTrain 2y ago
OK. What is a similar extreme on the other side, that shares a similar market penetration that Alex Jones has?
- TZubiri 2y ago
  [flagged]
- workingdog 2y ago
  The side that tells us that men can become women.
- hagbard_c 2y ago
  There are a few replies which got greyed out for some reason. Antifa is mentioned which is a reasonable candidate, not a person but a group aimed at deconstruction of western society under the cover of 'fighting fascism'. It has the 'market penetration' but where Jones (et al.) keep themselves to spouting rhetoric Antifa and similar organisations - and yes, these are organisations and not 'just ideas' as the current American president insists - use violent actions as their main tactic. Another candidate would be the pro-Hamas factions which call for 'Death to America' and which insist on downplaying and ridiculing the actions of their ideological allies. There is a heavy tendency to down-play 'left-wing' extremism but that does not make it disappear. You won't find it in the corporate media though, it is not reported by the likes of the SPLC and the ADL and similar organisations but it is there in plain sight. If it happens to hit the news it leads to odd headlines like the 'fiery but mostly peaceful protests' from the 'summer of love' in 2020.
  - anigbrowl 2y ago
    a group aimed at deconstruction of western society under the cover of 'fighting fascism' This is a wholly imaginary characterization.
    - rlt 2y ago
      Antifa is often considered anarchist or communist, so yeah.
sweeter 2y ago
"both sides bad" is a really brave, totally nuanced, take that no one ever has /s
zztop44 2y ago
He interviewed Trump in 2015 (by which time he’d been spreading Sandy Hook conspiracies for years), and even now post-bankruptcy he still interviews Steve Bannon, Tucker Carlson and plenty of other fairly mainstream Republican figures. There’s no one so shameless and harmful on the Left who is anywhere near as close to the mainstream of their political movement as Jones. Whereas the Right is absolutely littered with such figures. I think that framing it as “two households, both alike in (in)dignity” is a much bigger problem.
reramuyc 2y ago
I am not a fan of him but I feel they just want to destroy him, and frankly goes against cruel and unusual punishment!
- DougN7 2y ago
  Causing death threats seems cruel and unusual. Taking away money and a platform doesn’t seem in the same league.
hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
> There are extremes on both sides I agree with this. I may not 100% agree that the extremists on both sides are as extreme, but for the sake of argument I'll fully grant you this point. My issue though, is that I don't feel that anyone can say with a straight face that the extremists on the left/liberal/Democratic side have has much influence and power with the party apparatus as on the right/conservative/Republican side. Sure, Alex Jones and his small faction of followers are about as extreme as it gets, but then I'd like to think you'd see Republican leaders up and down denouncing him and distancing themselves from him. Instead I see influential figures on the right like Steve Bannon, former chief strategist in the White House, defend him: > Republican strategist Steve Bannon suggested Jones and his supporters surround the building, requiring anyone attempting to kick him out to “come through a chain of patriots.” - https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/2024/06/06/489838/alex-jones-came-for-parents-of-sandy-hook-victims-now-theyre-coming-for-his-ranch/ https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/2024/06/06/... The reason I can't stomach "the other side" is not that they have insane grifter extremists like Jones. It's that so many other more folks on that side with real power somehow and for some reason defend Jones.

by rlt 2y ago

SonOfKyuss 2y ago

If you can’t see that one side has let the extremist faction become a mainstream voice of their movement, you’re part of the problem.

reramuyc 2y ago
lol... when you cant have a some discord show you are the problem
chrismcb 2y ago
Which side are you talking about?
- DougN7 2y ago
  Seriously? Maybe I’m blind (and if so please point out what I’m missing) but I only see one side that: * seems to be increasing and supporting racism * has members trying to start a race war (see recent news) * has many members saying it’s time to arm and have a civil war and kill those that disagree (easy to find on Facebook) * increasingly encourages armed militias I see all of that on the extreme right. If it’s happening openly on the extreme left, I’d like to hear about it. For what it’s worth my views slant right, but MAGA and Trump destroyed the right party.
hagbard_c 2y ago
Yes, it is remarkable how much the 'democratic' party seems beholden to its extremist wing, this is likely to cost them dearly in the coming elections. By acting in ways they accuse the other side of doing they are losing their own more moderates as well as independents who either go to 'the other side' or vote for the 'third-party candidate'. I suspect this is more or less the opposite of what you were trying to say but that does not make it less true. It even fits with the pattern I mentioned before where 'democrats' accuse others of things they are doing themselves. From the 'threat to the democracy' via 'using the courts to attack opponents' this is all a matter of the pot calling the kettle black. Here's to hoping the upcoming elections end up mostly fair and square - no more shenanigans with mail-in ballots, no night-time counting sessions behind closed doors and for $deity's sake require the voters to identify themselves using some official ID like you need to buy a six-pack of beer and like is done in nearly all civilised countries. Make sure there is a paper trail, do not rely on electronic voting because that is not transparent enough for Joe Sixpack - and right he is. Preliminary results - from actual vote counts, not from exit polls - should be available on the same evening as the vote closes, there is no excuse for 2-3 week waiting periods.
- bhj 2y ago
  > no more shenanigans with mail-in ballots Ludicrous. Remember how T**** told supporters to not use mail-in ballots[0], then tried to stop the counting of mail-in ballots? [1] Or told people to vote twice? [2] Yes, one party is demonstrably more anti-democracy than the other. As for your voter fraud FUD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_lawsuits_related_to_the_2020_U.S._presidential_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_lawsuits_related... [0] https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/trumps-repeated-false-attacks-on-mail-in-ballots/ https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/trumps-repeated-false-atta... [1] https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4920640/user-clip-donald-trump-attempt-stop-counting-votes-ahead https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4920640/user-clip-donald-trum... [2] https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article245460825.html https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/articl...

LastTrain 2y ago

OK. What is a similar extreme on the other side, that shares a similar market penetration that Alex Jones has?

TZubiri 2y ago
[flagged]
workingdog 2y ago
The side that tells us that men can become women.
hagbard_c 2y ago
There are a few replies which got greyed out for some reason. Antifa is mentioned which is a reasonable candidate, not a person but a group aimed at deconstruction of western society under the cover of 'fighting fascism'. It has the 'market penetration' but where Jones (et al.) keep themselves to spouting rhetoric Antifa and similar organisations - and yes, these are organisations and not 'just ideas' as the current American president insists - use violent actions as their main tactic. Another candidate would be the pro-Hamas factions which call for 'Death to America' and which insist on downplaying and ridiculing the actions of their ideological allies. There is a heavy tendency to down-play 'left-wing' extremism but that does not make it disappear. You won't find it in the corporate media though, it is not reported by the likes of the SPLC and the ADL and similar organisations but it is there in plain sight. If it happens to hit the news it leads to odd headlines like the 'fiery but mostly peaceful protests' from the 'summer of love' in 2020.
- anigbrowl 2y ago
  a group aimed at deconstruction of western society under the cover of 'fighting fascism' This is a wholly imaginary characterization.
  - rlt 2y ago
    Antifa is often considered anarchist or communist, so yeah.

sweeter 2y ago

"both sides bad" is a really brave, totally nuanced, take that no one ever has /s

zztop44 2y ago

He interviewed Trump in 2015 (by which time he’d been spreading Sandy Hook conspiracies for years), and even now post-bankruptcy he still interviews Steve Bannon, Tucker Carlson and plenty of other fairly mainstream Republican figures. There’s no one so shameless and harmful on the Left who is anywhere near as close to the mainstream of their political movement as Jones. Whereas the Right is absolutely littered with such figures. I think that framing it as “two households, both alike in (in)dignity” is a much bigger problem.

reramuyc 2y ago

I am not a fan of him but I feel they just want to destroy him, and frankly goes against cruel and unusual punishment!

DougN7 2y ago
Causing death threats seems cruel and unusual. Taking away money and a platform doesn’t seem in the same league.

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago

> There are extremes on both sides I agree with this. I may not 100% agree that the extremists on both sides are as extreme, but for the sake of argument I'll fully grant you this point. My issue though, is that I don't feel that anyone can say with a straight face that the extremists on the left/liberal/Democratic side have has much influence and power with the party apparatus as on the right/conservative/Republican side. Sure, Alex Jones and his small faction of followers are about as extreme as it gets, but then I'd like to think you'd see Republican leaders up and down denouncing him and distancing themselves from him. Instead I see influential figures on the right like Steve Bannon, former chief strategist in the White House, defend him: > Republican strategist Steve Bannon suggested Jones and his supporters surround the building, requiring anyone attempting to kick him out to “come through a chain of patriots.” - https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/2024/06/06/489838/alex-jones-came-for-parents-of-sandy-hook-victims-now-theyre-coming-for-his-ranch/ https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/2024/06/06/... The reason I can't stomach "the other side" is not that they have insane grifter extremists like Jones. It's that so many other more folks on that side with real power somehow and for some reason defend Jones.