4 ms·
While it's a great discovery, I'm concerned that this will be abused by plastic manufacturers as an excuse to produce more plastics and talk about "how harmless
by can16358p 2y ago
While it's a great discovery, I'm concerned that this will be abused by plastic manufacturers as an excuse to produce more plastics and talk about "how harmless" plastics are as "they break down organically by fungi" anyway.
- MOARDONGZPLZ 2y agoDo you get the sense that the plastic manufacturers are limiting production in any whatsoever now?
- StimDeck 2y agoExactly. If anything, they have every plan to increase production already.
- thiagocsf 2y agoAs long as we keep buying stuff wrapped in plastic, someone needs to keep making more of it.
- littlestymaar 2y agoOf course, I buy things wrapped un plastic because I love plastic and not because there's no available alternative … So convenient to blame the consumer.
- throwaway48476 2y agoMost people fail to understand how useful plastic is because they never lived in a time before plastics.
- littlestymaar 2y ago“most people fail to understand how useful leaded gasoline is because they never lived in a time without it”
- _flux 2y agoAs I understand it, lead in gasoline was used for motor longetivity, but other approaches have been invented to reduce pollution. So now we use only (or just mostly?) unleaded gasoline, which is used basically the same as leaded. What's your microplastic-free alternative to replace most uses of plastic? Microplasticless plastic that would work for all plastic use cases doesn't exist, as far I know.
- throwaway48476 2y agoIt was to reduce knock which was solved with electronic fuel injection.
- littlestymaar 2y agoIdk what modern injection can do for that, but it wasn't even needed, the original solution was to use other additives instead of lead.
- serf 2y agoevery modern injection system that has authority over ignition and cam timing can monitor knock via microphone and adjust accordingly.
- littlestymaar 2y agoYou don't need a one-size-fits-all solution to all problems at once. But most plastic use have alternative solutions, if you are willing to change industrial practices (plastic-less supply chains will look very different for instance).
- 2y ago
- throwaway05294 2y agoUnfortunately the consumer is the only one who can influence the manufacturers by choosing alternatives. Large companies rarely actually care about the environmental effects when they have a cheaper alternative. I think many underestimate the influence consumers can have on the manufacturers. In some product categories, they have an option to choose a better alternative. If more did that, the manufacturers in other industries would see that there is a first mover advantage where they can grow their market share by reducing plastic usage. More R&D would be spent finding alternatives and the world as a whole would be improved. But it all starts with us choosing alternatives whenever possible. If enough consumers do that, the other manufacturers will improve because it impacts their revenue.
- jcynix 2y agoA large part of microplastics found in aquatic environments is abraison from car tires. So which alternative do you suggest? https://www.sciencenews.org/article/car-tires-and-brake-pads-produce-harmful-microplastics https://www.sciencenews.org/article/car-tires-and-brake-pads... https://theconversation.com/how-your-car-sheds-microplastics-into-the-ocean-thousands-of-miles-away-142614 https://theconversation.com/how-your-car-sheds-microplastics... https://microplastics.springeropen.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s43591-021-00008-w.pdf https://microplastics.springeropen.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s43...
- throwaway05294 2y agoAs I mentioned, the manufacturers will need to spend money on R&D to develop alternatives. Right now the tire manufacturers don't have any incentive because there's no financial benefit. Even though consumers don't have a choice when they buy tires today, other products have cleaner alternatives. If I was a manufacturer of tires and saw consumers consistently choosing cleaner products when possible, I would have an incentive to see if I could reduce the pollution, because I would gain market share. The first manufacturer would sell more tires and others would need to follow. Not enough consumers make this choice today to make up the cost of new technologies.
- 2y ago
- alt227 2y agoI buy all my food loose and not wrapped in plastic, its really not hard just dont go to supermarkets.
- croes 2y agoThose stores don't exist everywhere and usually the prices are higher.
- zo1 2y agoBut in a lot of other places, they're far cheaper than the supermarkets. It works the other way sometimes, and I think we need to examine why. My best off-the-cuff theory to it would be some sort of perverse government incentive. The same government that makes incentives that added all that extra driving, transportation, storage, packaging, etc to the "natural food" because they think farming and storing livestock within X-feet of a people-zoned area is dangerous and shouldn't be allowed. Next they complain "oh lets fix these food islands that we created in the first place" or "oh please let us regulate these evil companies that use so much bad plastic packaging because we told them not to sell food that "might" be off after expiry so they have to use plastic and other such devices to sell you absolutely pristine and non-contaminated food". The point in my rambling is that it's such a complicated problem, but the government sits at the heart of it. Both as a cause and a potential solution, unfortunately.
- garbagewoman 2y agoThe demand is affected by consumer preferences. The manufacturers are behind recycling initiatives, so they understand that
- Swizec 2y ago> Do you get the sense that the plastic manufacturers are limiting production in any whatsoever now? More and more stuff I buy, especially from higher end brands, comes packaged in purely cardboard packaging with no plastic. Not even tape or plastic bits to hold it together. They even brag about this in some of their marketing. Paper is nice because you can put the packaging in either recycling or compost depending which bin has more space that week.
- coffeecantcode 2y agoWhile I see your point and without defending the lackluster recycling culture in America, filling landfills with paper products is still better than plastic products, no?
- Ekaros 2y agoCould in theory work as carbon sequestration. Not effective one, but still.
- coffeecantcode 2y agoI guess I just see it as something with the potential to biodegrade within my lifetime as opposed to many many lifetimes in the future. I’m no climate scientist, genuinely curious if that mentality is incorrect or not.
- throwaway48476 2y agoThe most effective sequestration is to store carbon underground where it can't diffuse. The simplest way to put things underground is as a fluid. Some kind of fluid that's pure carbon. This pretty much just brings us back to pumping oil in reverse.
- Swizec 2y agoYes this is strictly better. I’m saying it’s a good thing that more things come packaged in cardboard than plastic these days and I’m highlighting that this is a growing trend especially in high-end products because those consumers care more
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- userbinator 2y agoI'm more concerned with whether it may start spreading beyond the ocean and causing pandemic-scale damage, although fortunately it seems slow. There is already dystopian sci-fi about similar themes.
- bdamm 2y agoNanoplastic and microplastics are basically everywhere now. So there's no need to wait, your concern is already realized.
- radarsat1 2y agoAs long as it's not an efficient process then you have a point. But, let's say some very efficient way to clean up and break down plastic was discovered. Then, wouldn't the manufacturers actually have a point? In that case it indeed would be harmless and we could enjoy the conveniences of it while being relatively certain we can then dispose of it safely. So you wouldn't call it an "abuse" in this case.
- cess11 2y agoSo, like, how do you imagine fungi could turn the plastic back into oil and down into the crust? Is your line of inquiry possibly, actually worthwhile?
- tredigi 2y agoJust because a fungus eventually breaks it down doesn't imply that it's "harmless". It can (and does) still accumulate in organisms and has many undesirable effects, including the human body. It can s easily end up in the food chain as long as it's not broken down, including areas where the fungus is not effective, which are plenty. The only difference such a fungus can make is that it could break down in certain pockets in nature in the long run.
- radarsat1 2y agoYes, I see your point here. I think most objections to plastic including my own are about the longevity of its effects on ecosystems, but local, short term effects on health are equally problematic.
- theK 2y agoThe article talks about how this one fungus found in the depths of the sea can break down PE (polyethylene) plastics. The biggest problem with combating ocean plastic is deployment of any solution. The seas are vast and trash, while a huge problem, is still relatively sparse within them. It would be great to see if this fungus can be deployed on land at large enough scale to take care of, say, a whole regions PEs. That way we could get somewhere.
- 2y ago
- throwaway48476 2y agoI'm more worried about the longterm. As organisms get better at breaking down plastic manufacturers will start putting nasty chemicals in plastics to prevent premature breakdown.
- hinkley 2y agoAnd things that kill fungi tend to also kill us. Fungicides quite often cause liver damage.
- quonn 2y ago> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8529939/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8529939/ Sure, but only as long as "quite often" means "almost never".
- hinkley 2y agoYou’re talking about antifungals approved for human consumption. I wonder why they were approved for human consumption?
- therobots927 2y agoThat’s why we need increased government oversight of corporate behavior in general. Fingers crossed this becomes politically feasible as younger generations enter a greater position of power. I have hope that these externalities can be solved as long as the root cause of unregulated money chasing is addressed.
- mrguyorama 2y agoThe problem is that younger generations are just as impressionable as previous ones, but now they have a surveillance state and advertising apperatus aimed squarely at them. So now young men are pissed at the world for being not a fairyland like they were promised, and are getting absolutely riled up by grifters who are the first step in the right wing recruitment funnel and now millions of young men think the reason the world sucks is women, immigrants, and having emotions. Not a great outcome.
- poopcat 2y agoConsidering how plastic manufacturers turned recycling into the ultimate false hope, I agree with you. I try to be mindful about my plastic consumption but it is everywhere. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/15/recycling-plastics-producers-report https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/15/recycling-pl...
- gooseyman 2y agoJervons Paradox https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox