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I’m not sure I’ve seen anyone disagree with the premise that phone and social media addiction is bad for kids (and probably adults too), and yet we still find o

I’m not sure I’ve seen anyone disagree with the premise that phone and social media addiction is bad for kids (and probably adults too), and yet we still find ourselves in this position. What are we to do? Banning phone use on an individual basis is a recipe for social suicide. Some kind of collective action is needed. Legislation against phone use for minors is one option, but I wouldn’t expect it to receive widespread support. Banning social media for minors might be workable, but it wouldn’t fully resolve the issue.

hot_gril 2y ago
It's not social suicide for a kid or teen not to have a smartphone (or to limit usage), so it's solvable individually.
- jader201 2y ago
  Curious, do you have teens? Most people saying things like this don't, but if you do, curious if you've tried this and it works/ed out for you?
  - hot_gril 2y ago
    It worked when I was a teen (not very long ago) and nearly everyone else had smartphones. I think the people who consider it social suicide are unconvinced that smartphones are a problem to begin with, which like I said is fine if they want that.
    - bluSCALE4 2y ago
      Were you popular? I feel like social dynamics must play a role. I mean I'm pretty sure blue vs green bubbles are a big deal in some circles let alone social media.
      - hot_gril 2y ago
        Moderately, or at least, not socially dead. Only played video games on weekends, including a Minecraft server with friends, which in hindsight still became a bit of an addiction I would've been better without. I was popular in college, and I did have a phone then but barely used it. Having a Facebook account mattered in college purely for class groups, events, and group chats where people coordinated stuff. One thing I don't know is what replaced that (if anything). So basically, having a PC at home was more than enough.
        jader201 2y ago
        Another factor is how long ago we’re talking, too. 2024 is quite a bit different vs., for example, 10 years ago.
        hot_gril 2y ago
        HS was 10 years ago, college was after. Since 7th grade, most kids had smartphones and were using them all hours of the day. Most people used Facebook, and by hs Minecraft was huge. What changed, aside from old games/platforms getting replaced?
        jprete 2y ago
        I've heard Insta has a bunch of stuff that can replace FB's remaining uses (not just photo sharing, events and such) but I've never gotten into it so don't really know.
        hot_gril 2y ago
        IG doesn't seem to have the equivalent. Events for instance, https://help.instagram.com/448430800019943 https://help.instagram.com/448430800019943 says "This feature is only available to professional accounts on Instagram." Just checked, I'm still in the largest school-wide FB group from college. It ceased posting in 2019 despite technically having over 100K members still. Gonna assume FB groups aren't a thing anymore and it's moved to Discord, but I'm still curious.
  - MisterTea 2y ago
    Two years ago a coworker became the parent to a teen overnight after his wife's son moved in with them as the sons father booted him to make room for a new wife and kid. Of course this comes with behavioral problems, nothing serious just being rebellious and doesn't listen and the mother levies punishment as needed. Of course kids think they are slick but unfortunately for him his new stepfather is technologically very literate. So every few weeks I hear a new tale of angsty teen son vs parents. Today he told me the son was banned from phone use for two weeks as a punishment for something. Son hands the phone to the mother last night but she doesn't look at the phone. He asks her to check the phone screen and wouldn't you know - it was missing its sim card. Kid sim swapped to an old phone a friend gave him. Didn't work, mother confiscated his sim card. WiFi? Well the Unifi system he has setup in his house has a separate ssid for the stepson and his gadgets that gets shut off after 10PM on school nights and if he is punished, remains off until the sanctions are lifted. Kid is blacked out on personal devices but is still allowed to - watch TV if he is done with homework or go out with friends in meat space with strict curfew. The son deals with it because he has no other choice. And I have heard no complaints that he is dying a social death. Just stick to your guns and show them who is in charge - you, the parent.
    - caddemon 2y ago
      Taking away the phone for 2 weeks is different than never having a phone for the entirety of high school though.
- prettyStandard 2y ago
  Says the hot gril... ...Seriously I have a hard time seeing it your way. Can you elaborate on your rational? Change my mind?
  - hot_gril 2y ago
    No. No I don't think I will.
- complaintdept 2y ago
  It's practically considered child abuse these days to not give them a smartphone. I'm only slightly exaggerating. I think kids would be better off without them altogether.
  - nonrandomstring 2y ago
    What? Giving them the phone. Or not giving them the phone?
    - inglor_cz 2y ago
      Yes.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - complaintdept 2y ago
      Clarified.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    Having a way to call for help or contact parents is immensely useful, even if it didn't exist when you were young. (Also, when you were young, there were probably pay phones, but those are gone now.) Smartphones have many other very useful functions. The real problem is social media.
- hollow-moe 2y ago
  obviously unaware about today's youth
- nineplay 2y ago
  'social suicide' is a vague term but my daughter has been spending a fair amount of this summer break texting groups of friends and/or playing online multi-player games with friends. Nothing good would come of my taking away her phone.
  - wonderwonder 2y ago
    yeah, I limit video game time for my kids but don't take it away as that's how they play with their friends currently. So outside time and sports during the day and I let them have game time with friends after dinner. Seems to be a good balance
    - nineplay 2y ago
      It obviously depends on circumstance - she doesn't have endless phone time but it's summer and this week she has few other plans. I don't wish her only social interaction to be on her phone but the fact remains that if I took it away forever it would mostly impact her ability to play with her friends. I don't personally believe that it would be good for her mental health.
      - wonderwonder 2y ago
        Yup, I agree. Kids need to be able to talk with friends. Especially over summer when they cant always see them in person at school. I have zero issues with phones, its just the social media apps I am against. My kids have a Facetime video chat they all jump on while they game so they can see each other and talk, pretty great actually.
  - hot_gril 2y ago
    Idk how to say this exactly, but one thing I've learned from playing online MP games is that people aren't socializing on them, they're just being antisocial as a group.
    - nineplay 2y ago
      I'm sure it varies. The peals of laughter coming from her room suggest her experience is different.
- OJFord 2y ago
  That is nonsense, I was at school with mobile phones before the iPhone (before touchscreens, non-Java-applet apps, 3G, etc.) and it absolutely would've been even then. I mean maybe you'd have gotten away with it being active on MSN, but it'd have been a problem for sure (you arrange to meet someone and then just go there and hope they show up at the right time and don't want to change plans?) and I think far more so today without even considering social media like Instagram & TikTok & whatever that 'everyone' is using. (They weren't allowed actually at school though, weren't even supposed to be in your locker, so I always think it's a bit weird when it occasionally pops up debate about banning them from schools or that X school has banned them - curious when and why they allowed them, or maybe they were just always allowed to begin with?)
  - hot_gril 2y ago
    Regular dumb phones were useful then and are still useful, just for coordinating. Smartphone is a superset of a GameBoy Advance now. Literally kids in my school were emulating GBA on their iPhones. There are in-betweens nowadays like a smartphone with parental controls.
  - tanseydavid 2y ago
    >> then just go there and hope they show up at the right time and don't want to change plans Why make plans in the first place then? Changing plans at the last minute is really inconsiderate behavior.
    - OJFord 2y ago
      Because you're 12 or whatever and do have a phone and so-and-so just texted that everyone (omg, right) is actually going to be down by the river instead, are you coming? Of course you are, but tanseydavid thinks he's meeting you in town and doesn't have a phone...
    - hot_gril 2y ago
      Teens don't plan things this way. It's more like, a few are together somewhere, someone is coming late, and the group is a moving target.
- lynndotpy 2y ago
  My social life suffered greatly being one of the only kids in my highschool without a cellphone. This was the early 2010s in the United States. Imagine being a teenager and trying to include someone lacking a cellphone to your social group. It adds a huge amount of friction. Including someone without a cellphone means you give up the ability to be spontaneous (assuming the kid needs to adhere to an agreed-upon schedule to be picked up by a parent), and trivial things become a literal telephone-game ordeal. It also means almost invariably that the kid is relying on a friend's phone to communicate parents / a ride, unless that kid is so privileged as to own their own car. Could you imagine if every time you hung out with a friend, they asked to borrow your phone, open Facebook Messenger (or whatever sensitive messaging app you use), and to contact a parent? It also means the kid isn't included in group chats, which means they just aren't part of conversations other kids are having. You can't have a rich social life with someone you can only talk to in classes you share and for 20 minutes during lunch break. The "green bubble" phenomenon is bad enough as it is. I don't like it, but for all practical reasons, owning a cellphone is necessary for a kids social life in the United States.
  - hot_gril 2y ago
    I agree that a cellphone for call/text only is important. I had one too. If you need blue bubbles nowadays, fine, handmedown iPhone with parental controls will do that.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - euroderf 2y ago
    > Could you imagine if every time you hung out with a friend, they asked to borrow your phone, open Facebook Messenger (or whatever sensitive messaging app you use), and to contact a parent? What if the parent could handle such eventualities - based on trust in the child - with no freaking out ?
    - lynndotpy 2y ago
      I'm not sure what you mean. The point of this quotation is that a cell phone is a very personal thing. It's anxiety inducing and burdensome to hand over your cellphone to someone. And that's not the mention the power dynamic between the kids with the cellphone and the kid without.
- dyauspitr 2y ago
  I would spend long hours talking to my friends on the landline growing up. These helped form deep relationships that were pretty much (atleast for me) impossible to make in the limited amount of time you met them at school. I presume something similar happens around cellphones where you miss out on a lot of discussions and have no context for a lot of the conversations that happen the next day. They really need to be collectively banned, it’s not possible to solve this at an individual level.
sarchertech 2y ago
I hope that by the time my 2 year old is in middle school, it’s fairly normal for parents to keep their kids off of social media and smart phones.
- jader201 2y ago
  To the OP's point, without some collective support, I don't anticipate this happening. In fact, you'll likely have to deal with this as early as elementary school.
  - sarchertech 2y ago
    At least among my peer group, there’s clear support for holding off on smart phones for kids until at least high school, so I have hope.
- trey-jones 2y ago
  Like the other commenter in this thread who says "... not social suicide ..." I would suggest just implementing the rules yourself regardless of what society is doing. The trend (as you can imagine) is definitely still going younger and younger. And unless you have the funds to fight off the marketing teams of Google and Apple, I imagine that will continue. My kids are fine. Even with their parents fighting tooth and nail to keep them off devices as much as possible, they will still be on them sometimes (in your home or out of it). Maybe my kids are just weird to not be craving social media - just being able to send text messages to her friends seems to be enough for my 14 year old currently. Is that the same thing? My observations say "definitely not". They complain about it sometimes, (and I complain about their usage sometimes) but nobody is really angry and everybody is really reasonable. Your mileage may vary.
  - inglor_cz 2y ago
    "My kids are fine." ... "Your mileage may vary." It almost certainly does. People are wildly different in their susceptibility to alcohol, gambling etc. We should expect the same wild variability when it comes to social networks.
wonderwonder 2y ago
social media ban for kids goes into effect in Florida in 2025. I already forbid my kids from using any social network. They can use youtube with supervision. Social media is poison for young minds. Older minds too but thats another issue.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
cjk2 2y ago
As a parent of three I’d suggest that it’s probably the best to teach them to use them as tools not entertainment. As I quoted elsewhere, any extremist or reductionist position makes things worse for them.
- bluSCALE4 2y ago
  Nerd dad here. This is hard. You can lead a horse to water but can't make them drink. Meta Quest is the only tech that's being used as a tool in my house. Everything else are used as toys. I've even tried to restrict games heavily and it still was tough. Basically, some kids will not seek out education things even if they are installed. This was not my upbringing. I would eventually bore of games and looked for educational things like Dangerous Creatures, Microsoft Bob, Encarta, etc. But I am not seeing the same in my kids.
  - cjk2 2y ago
    Crap time is fine. Not everything has to have educational value or they will get burned out. Variety is the problem.
    - ricardobeat 2y ago
      Their comment implies that very little time is spent in educational content (all the time is “crap time”), which is the other extreme. What do you mean by variety is the problem?
      - cjk2 2y ago
        Well I should say lack of variety. Games are healthy, communications are healthy, education is healthy. Too much of any of those at the sacrifice of any other is not.
  - jay_kyburz 2y ago
    I have two boys 10 and 12. Same upbringing, same household culture, same screen time rules. The young one loves programming in Scratch, building levels in Roblox, creating music, exploring all kinds of creative projects. The older one has tried it all out, but prefers to just play games.
mentos 2y ago
I asked this question in a thread a few days ago and got downvoted. I’d probably have better luck preaching sobriety in a bar ha but I really think society needs to wake up to the toxicity of technology much like we did cigarettes.
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  > I really think society needs to wake up to the toxicity of technology much like we did cigarettes. That's why I'm pretty wary of some other comments along the lines of "you just need to teach your children to think of phones as tools and regulate their screen time". I feel that's like telling kids "You just need to keep it to 3 or 4 cigarettes a day." Sure, some kids may do OK with this (I happen to think they're really in the minority), but social media is fundamentally designed to addict people. That is literally the goal of social media companies. So I'm just a bit dubious that kids, especially young kids e.g. in middle school, have the ability to regulate that.
nashadelic 2y ago
I'm not so sure. I see my 10-year-old daughter use her iPad and its very constructive, she's on screen sharing/video with her friends quite a lot, its healthy socialization. I imagine it becomes a problem when the child can't regulate their usage. But that's where we can use screentime and parental controls.
- 31337Logic 2y ago
  > ... it becomes a problem when the child can't regulate their usage. That's now every child. Also, that was very much an intentionally designed effect -- it's no secret. Let that sink in. Your 10 year old is up against multi billion dollar companies who control the very tools you want to use to curb her addiction? (No, she is... We all are.)
- HenryBemis 2y ago
  Doing math on Matific is great (or similar activities). It's the exposure to Social Media that is the cesspool of the internet, where the kids are open to receive messages from anyone and everyone, and have the algorithm showing them every garbage under the sun. People forget that the purpose of Social Media is to spend more and more time. "User Engagement" is the key.
- ricardobeat 2y ago
  All it takes is one fateful string of recommended videos, access to Instagram (“everyone from school is on it!”) and things change in a heartbeat.
HelixEndeavor 2y ago
If we're to pass any sort of legislation, it shouldn't be against the kids, they're the victims of exploitation by greedy monopoly/oligopoly algorithms, we should legislate against companies like Meta, Snapchat, etc. the TikTok ban unless they sold off to an American firm that could be subject to US legislation was actually not the worst idea in the world (albeit I highly doubt the current Congress would've actually done anything constructive after the theoretical sale)
planestrainsaut 2y ago
[dead]
slothtrop 2y ago
Consider what those who aren't glued to the phone are actually missing out on. More than ever, kids are choosing not to go out and spend time with friends, instead doomscrolling, binge-watch tv and chat on instagram or whatever. That's not a bristling social life, but it does behave as a surrogate for one. When kids hang outside of school, as was always the case, they usually live nearby. Notwithstanding that dumbphones and managed social media use are options, unless you think teens are all monsters (which would not be solved by phones anyway), it's not a lord of the flies situation of shunning people without phones. I think there's a culture of inactive shut ins and we're acting like this should be cause for FOMO. I expect kids would be happier if they actually physically see some friends more regularly anyway.
acchow 2y ago
The parents that actually care need to get together and decide collectively on timeframes for phone use so the kids can text/social with time limits. Then enforce it with on-device parental controls. Maybe 45 minutes before school each morning and 1 hour the evening or something.
jay_kyburz 2y ago
Here in my local state we banned all phones at school! Everybody I've spoken to thinks its a great idea. Even the kids. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-06/mobile-phone-ban-canberra-public-schools/103194048 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-06/mobile-phone-ban-canb...
kyletns 2y ago
Legislation is absolutely happening! Check it: https://www.compactmag.com/article/ending-big-techs-child-exploitation/ https://www.compactmag.com/article/ending-big-techs-child-ex...
treflop 2y ago
I think a lack of self-confidence and a lack of a strong group of friends is the actual issue here. If you have both, your friends are always there to let you know how much you are loved.
- kyletns 2y ago
  Soooo you just don't think that phones (with social media apps) are addictive and harmful for kids? The research on this is pretty clear.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
turtlebits 2y ago
What do we do? Treat it as any potentially dangerous tool that you let (not give) your child use. Learn safety, responsible usage and set limits. Let them demonstrate they can handle it before unattended use.
dyauspitr 2y ago
Yes, I really wish the law made it so that anyone under at least 16 (but ideally 18) is banned from using a smartphone. There’s no reason parents should have to be the “bad guy” in millions of homes across the US, we should just be able to say it’s against the law.
brnt 2y ago
> Banning phone use on an individual basis is a recipe for social suicide. Is it really? Or is this one of those irrational fears?

hot_gril 2y ago

It's not social suicide for a kid or teen not to have a smartphone (or to limit usage), so it's solvable individually.

jader201 2y ago
Curious, do you have teens? Most people saying things like this don't, but if you do, curious if you've tried this and it works/ed out for you?
- hot_gril 2y ago
  It worked when I was a teen (not very long ago) and nearly everyone else had smartphones. I think the people who consider it social suicide are unconvinced that smartphones are a problem to begin with, which like I said is fine if they want that.
  - bluSCALE4 2y ago
    Were you popular? I feel like social dynamics must play a role. I mean I'm pretty sure blue vs green bubbles are a big deal in some circles let alone social media.
    - hot_gril 2y ago
      Moderately, or at least, not socially dead. Only played video games on weekends, including a Minecraft server with friends, which in hindsight still became a bit of an addiction I would've been better without. I was popular in college, and I did have a phone then but barely used it. Having a Facebook account mattered in college purely for class groups, events, and group chats where people coordinated stuff. One thing I don't know is what replaced that (if anything). So basically, having a PC at home was more than enough.
      - jader201 2y ago
        Another factor is how long ago we’re talking, too. 2024 is quite a bit different vs., for example, 10 years ago.
        hot_gril 2y ago
        HS was 10 years ago, college was after. Since 7th grade, most kids had smartphones and were using them all hours of the day. Most people used Facebook, and by hs Minecraft was huge. What changed, aside from old games/platforms getting replaced?
      - jprete 2y ago
        I've heard Insta has a bunch of stuff that can replace FB's remaining uses (not just photo sharing, events and such) but I've never gotten into it so don't really know.
        hot_gril 2y ago
        IG doesn't seem to have the equivalent. Events for instance, https://help.instagram.com/448430800019943 https://help.instagram.com/448430800019943 says "This feature is only available to professional accounts on Instagram." Just checked, I'm still in the largest school-wide FB group from college. It ceased posting in 2019 despite technically having over 100K members still. Gonna assume FB groups aren't a thing anymore and it's moved to Discord, but I'm still curious.
- MisterTea 2y ago
  Two years ago a coworker became the parent to a teen overnight after his wife's son moved in with them as the sons father booted him to make room for a new wife and kid. Of course this comes with behavioral problems, nothing serious just being rebellious and doesn't listen and the mother levies punishment as needed. Of course kids think they are slick but unfortunately for him his new stepfather is technologically very literate. So every few weeks I hear a new tale of angsty teen son vs parents. Today he told me the son was banned from phone use for two weeks as a punishment for something. Son hands the phone to the mother last night but she doesn't look at the phone. He asks her to check the phone screen and wouldn't you know - it was missing its sim card. Kid sim swapped to an old phone a friend gave him. Didn't work, mother confiscated his sim card. WiFi? Well the Unifi system he has setup in his house has a separate ssid for the stepson and his gadgets that gets shut off after 10PM on school nights and if he is punished, remains off until the sanctions are lifted. Kid is blacked out on personal devices but is still allowed to - watch TV if he is done with homework or go out with friends in meat space with strict curfew. The son deals with it because he has no other choice. And I have heard no complaints that he is dying a social death. Just stick to your guns and show them who is in charge - you, the parent.
  - caddemon 2y ago
    Taking away the phone for 2 weeks is different than never having a phone for the entirety of high school though.
prettyStandard 2y ago
Says the hot gril... ...Seriously I have a hard time seeing it your way. Can you elaborate on your rational? Change my mind?
- hot_gril 2y ago
  No. No I don't think I will.
complaintdept 2y ago
It's practically considered child abuse these days to not give them a smartphone. I'm only slightly exaggerating. I think kids would be better off without them altogether.
- nonrandomstring 2y ago
  What? Giving them the phone. Or not giving them the phone?
  - inglor_cz 2y ago
    Yes.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - complaintdept 2y ago
    Clarified.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  Having a way to call for help or contact parents is immensely useful, even if it didn't exist when you were young. (Also, when you were young, there were probably pay phones, but those are gone now.) Smartphones have many other very useful functions. The real problem is social media.
hollow-moe 2y ago
obviously unaware about today's youth
nineplay 2y ago
'social suicide' is a vague term but my daughter has been spending a fair amount of this summer break texting groups of friends and/or playing online multi-player games with friends. Nothing good would come of my taking away her phone.
- wonderwonder 2y ago
  yeah, I limit video game time for my kids but don't take it away as that's how they play with their friends currently. So outside time and sports during the day and I let them have game time with friends after dinner. Seems to be a good balance
  - nineplay 2y ago
    It obviously depends on circumstance - she doesn't have endless phone time but it's summer and this week she has few other plans. I don't wish her only social interaction to be on her phone but the fact remains that if I took it away forever it would mostly impact her ability to play with her friends. I don't personally believe that it would be good for her mental health.
    - wonderwonder 2y ago
      Yup, I agree. Kids need to be able to talk with friends. Especially over summer when they cant always see them in person at school. I have zero issues with phones, its just the social media apps I am against. My kids have a Facetime video chat they all jump on while they game so they can see each other and talk, pretty great actually.
- hot_gril 2y ago
  Idk how to say this exactly, but one thing I've learned from playing online MP games is that people aren't socializing on them, they're just being antisocial as a group.
  - nineplay 2y ago
    I'm sure it varies. The peals of laughter coming from her room suggest her experience is different.
OJFord 2y ago
That is nonsense, I was at school with mobile phones before the iPhone (before touchscreens, non-Java-applet apps, 3G, etc.) and it absolutely would've been even then. I mean maybe you'd have gotten away with it being active on MSN, but it'd have been a problem for sure (you arrange to meet someone and then just go there and hope they show up at the right time and don't want to change plans?) and I think far more so today without even considering social media like Instagram & TikTok & whatever that 'everyone' is using. (They weren't allowed actually at school though, weren't even supposed to be in your locker, so I always think it's a bit weird when it occasionally pops up debate about banning them from schools or that X school has banned them - curious when and why they allowed them, or maybe they were just always allowed to begin with?)
- hot_gril 2y ago
  Regular dumb phones were useful then and are still useful, just for coordinating. Smartphone is a superset of a GameBoy Advance now. Literally kids in my school were emulating GBA on their iPhones. There are in-betweens nowadays like a smartphone with parental controls.
- tanseydavid 2y ago
  >> then just go there and hope they show up at the right time and don't want to change plans Why make plans in the first place then? Changing plans at the last minute is really inconsiderate behavior.
  - OJFord 2y ago
    Because you're 12 or whatever and do have a phone and so-and-so just texted that everyone (omg, right) is actually going to be down by the river instead, are you coming? Of course you are, but tanseydavid thinks he's meeting you in town and doesn't have a phone...
  - hot_gril 2y ago
    Teens don't plan things this way. It's more like, a few are together somewhere, someone is coming late, and the group is a moving target.
lynndotpy 2y ago
My social life suffered greatly being one of the only kids in my highschool without a cellphone. This was the early 2010s in the United States. Imagine being a teenager and trying to include someone lacking a cellphone to your social group. It adds a huge amount of friction. Including someone without a cellphone means you give up the ability to be spontaneous (assuming the kid needs to adhere to an agreed-upon schedule to be picked up by a parent), and trivial things become a literal telephone-game ordeal. It also means almost invariably that the kid is relying on a friend's phone to communicate parents / a ride, unless that kid is so privileged as to own their own car. Could you imagine if every time you hung out with a friend, they asked to borrow your phone, open Facebook Messenger (or whatever sensitive messaging app you use), and to contact a parent? It also means the kid isn't included in group chats, which means they just aren't part of conversations other kids are having. You can't have a rich social life with someone you can only talk to in classes you share and for 20 minutes during lunch break. The "green bubble" phenomenon is bad enough as it is. I don't like it, but for all practical reasons, owning a cellphone is necessary for a kids social life in the United States.
- hot_gril 2y ago
  I agree that a cellphone for call/text only is important. I had one too. If you need blue bubbles nowadays, fine, handmedown iPhone with parental controls will do that.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- euroderf 2y ago
  > Could you imagine if every time you hung out with a friend, they asked to borrow your phone, open Facebook Messenger (or whatever sensitive messaging app you use), and to contact a parent? What if the parent could handle such eventualities - based on trust in the child - with no freaking out ?
  - lynndotpy 2y ago
    I'm not sure what you mean. The point of this quotation is that a cell phone is a very personal thing. It's anxiety inducing and burdensome to hand over your cellphone to someone. And that's not the mention the power dynamic between the kids with the cellphone and the kid without.
dyauspitr 2y ago
I would spend long hours talking to my friends on the landline growing up. These helped form deep relationships that were pretty much (atleast for me) impossible to make in the limited amount of time you met them at school. I presume something similar happens around cellphones where you miss out on a lot of discussions and have no context for a lot of the conversations that happen the next day. They really need to be collectively banned, it’s not possible to solve this at an individual level.

sarchertech 2y ago

I hope that by the time my 2 year old is in middle school, it’s fairly normal for parents to keep their kids off of social media and smart phones.

jader201 2y ago
To the OP's point, without some collective support, I don't anticipate this happening. In fact, you'll likely have to deal with this as early as elementary school.
- sarchertech 2y ago
  At least among my peer group, there’s clear support for holding off on smart phones for kids until at least high school, so I have hope.
trey-jones 2y ago
Like the other commenter in this thread who says "... not social suicide ..." I would suggest just implementing the rules yourself regardless of what society is doing. The trend (as you can imagine) is definitely still going younger and younger. And unless you have the funds to fight off the marketing teams of Google and Apple, I imagine that will continue. My kids are fine. Even with their parents fighting tooth and nail to keep them off devices as much as possible, they will still be on them sometimes (in your home or out of it). Maybe my kids are just weird to not be craving social media - just being able to send text messages to her friends seems to be enough for my 14 year old currently. Is that the same thing? My observations say "definitely not". They complain about it sometimes, (and I complain about their usage sometimes) but nobody is really angry and everybody is really reasonable. Your mileage may vary.
- inglor_cz 2y ago
  "My kids are fine." ... "Your mileage may vary." It almost certainly does. People are wildly different in their susceptibility to alcohol, gambling etc. We should expect the same wild variability when it comes to social networks.

wonderwonder 2y ago

social media ban for kids goes into effect in Florida in 2025. I already forbid my kids from using any social network. They can use youtube with supervision. Social media is poison for young minds. Older minds too but thats another issue.

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cjk2 2y ago

As a parent of three I’d suggest that it’s probably the best to teach them to use them as tools not entertainment. As I quoted elsewhere, any extremist or reductionist position makes things worse for them.

bluSCALE4 2y ago
Nerd dad here. This is hard. You can lead a horse to water but can't make them drink. Meta Quest is the only tech that's being used as a tool in my house. Everything else are used as toys. I've even tried to restrict games heavily and it still was tough. Basically, some kids will not seek out education things even if they are installed. This was not my upbringing. I would eventually bore of games and looked for educational things like Dangerous Creatures, Microsoft Bob, Encarta, etc. But I am not seeing the same in my kids.
- cjk2 2y ago
  Crap time is fine. Not everything has to have educational value or they will get burned out. Variety is the problem.
  - ricardobeat 2y ago
    Their comment implies that very little time is spent in educational content (all the time is “crap time”), which is the other extreme. What do you mean by variety is the problem?
    - cjk2 2y ago
      Well I should say lack of variety. Games are healthy, communications are healthy, education is healthy. Too much of any of those at the sacrifice of any other is not.
- jay_kyburz 2y ago
  I have two boys 10 and 12. Same upbringing, same household culture, same screen time rules. The young one loves programming in Scratch, building levels in Roblox, creating music, exploring all kinds of creative projects. The older one has tried it all out, but prefers to just play games.

mentos 2y ago

I asked this question in a thread a few days ago and got downvoted. I’d probably have better luck preaching sobriety in a bar ha but I really think society needs to wake up to the toxicity of technology much like we did cigarettes.

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
> I really think society needs to wake up to the toxicity of technology much like we did cigarettes. That's why I'm pretty wary of some other comments along the lines of "you just need to teach your children to think of phones as tools and regulate their screen time". I feel that's like telling kids "You just need to keep it to 3 or 4 cigarettes a day." Sure, some kids may do OK with this (I happen to think they're really in the minority), but social media is fundamentally designed to addict people. That is literally the goal of social media companies. So I'm just a bit dubious that kids, especially young kids e.g. in middle school, have the ability to regulate that.

nashadelic 2y ago

I'm not so sure. I see my 10-year-old daughter use her iPad and its very constructive, she's on screen sharing/video with her friends quite a lot, its healthy socialization. I imagine it becomes a problem when the child can't regulate their usage. But that's where we can use screentime and parental controls.

31337Logic 2y ago
> ... it becomes a problem when the child can't regulate their usage. That's now every child. Also, that was very much an intentionally designed effect -- it's no secret. Let that sink in. Your 10 year old is up against multi billion dollar companies who control the very tools you want to use to curb her addiction? (No, she is... We all are.)
HenryBemis 2y ago
Doing math on Matific is great (or similar activities). It's the exposure to Social Media that is the cesspool of the internet, where the kids are open to receive messages from anyone and everyone, and have the algorithm showing them every garbage under the sun. People forget that the purpose of Social Media is to spend more and more time. "User Engagement" is the key.
ricardobeat 2y ago
All it takes is one fateful string of recommended videos, access to Instagram (“everyone from school is on it!”) and things change in a heartbeat.

HelixEndeavor 2y ago

If we're to pass any sort of legislation, it shouldn't be against the kids, they're the victims of exploitation by greedy monopoly/oligopoly algorithms, we should legislate against companies like Meta, Snapchat, etc. the TikTok ban unless they sold off to an American firm that could be subject to US legislation was actually not the worst idea in the world (albeit I highly doubt the current Congress would've actually done anything constructive after the theoretical sale)

planestrainsaut 2y ago

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slothtrop 2y ago

Consider what those who aren't glued to the phone are actually missing out on. More than ever, kids are choosing not to go out and spend time with friends, instead doomscrolling, binge-watch tv and chat on instagram or whatever. That's not a bristling social life, but it does behave as a surrogate for one. When kids hang outside of school, as was always the case, they usually live nearby. Notwithstanding that dumbphones and managed social media use are options, unless you think teens are all monsters (which would not be solved by phones anyway), it's not a lord of the flies situation of shunning people without phones. I think there's a culture of inactive shut ins and we're acting like this should be cause for FOMO. I expect kids would be happier if they actually physically see some friends more regularly anyway.

acchow 2y ago

The parents that actually care need to get together and decide collectively on timeframes for phone use so the kids can text/social with time limits. Then enforce it with on-device parental controls. Maybe 45 minutes before school each morning and 1 hour the evening or something.

jay_kyburz 2y ago

Here in my local state we banned all phones at school! Everybody I've spoken to thinks its a great idea. Even the kids. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-06/mobile-phone-ban-canberra-public-schools/103194048 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-06/mobile-phone-ban-canb...

kyletns 2y ago

Legislation is absolutely happening! Check it: https://www.compactmag.com/article/ending-big-techs-child-exploitation/ https://www.compactmag.com/article/ending-big-techs-child-ex...

treflop 2y ago

I think a lack of self-confidence and a lack of a strong group of friends is the actual issue here. If you have both, your friends are always there to let you know how much you are loved.

kyletns 2y ago
Soooo you just don't think that phones (with social media apps) are addictive and harmful for kids? The research on this is pretty clear.

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turtlebits 2y ago

What do we do? Treat it as any potentially dangerous tool that you let (not give) your child use. Learn safety, responsible usage and set limits. Let them demonstrate they can handle it before unattended use.

dyauspitr 2y ago

Yes, I really wish the law made it so that anyone under at least 16 (but ideally 18) is banned from using a smartphone. There’s no reason parents should have to be the “bad guy” in millions of homes across the US, we should just be able to say it’s against the law.

brnt 2y ago

> Banning phone use on an individual basis is a recipe for social suicide. Is it really? Or is this one of those irrational fears?