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https://maggieappleton.com/ai-dark-forest https://maggieappleton.com/ai-dark-forest As AI takes over the public internet (the trees) the people will retreat to

by jvm___ 2y ago

https://maggieappleton.com/ai-dark-forest https://maggieappleton.com/ai-dark-forest As AI takes over the public internet (the trees) the people will retreat to safe underground spaces where they know only authentic humans live.

thegrim33 2y ago
It's pretty ironic that every one of their "cozy internet" site examples requires pumping all of your communications through a third-party private business that only exists if it somehow can make money off of you, and which can do whatever nebulous stuff with your data that it wants. Doesn't seem very cozy to me. I believe the mainstream internet is already completely overrun by malicious actors, whether bots or not, and the majority of the population doesn't seem to care or have the ability to notice. I don't see the bulk of the population doing anything to retreat from it. A subset of the population, that includes myself, sure, but "the people", I doubt it.
- groby_b 2y ago
  Sure, if you want to take a purist stance, we should start by inventing a universe free of third parties, to borrow from Feynman. Meanwhile, the goal of most of these private groups isn't to stick it to the man, or make sure all data is eternally private, but just to talk to each other in a non-public setting. It's OK to use a tool for that you haven't entirely built from scratch. Most humans, your "the people" (really? in quotes? did you want to write sheeple?), care more about getting on with their life than absolutist stances. They notice just fine, and they adjust as much as they feel the need to adjust.
- theamk 2y ago
  I don't understand why some people hate third-party private businesses so much on the internet. I mean, people often have conversations in coffee shops, such as Starbucks. Starbucks is a third-party private business that only exists if it somehow can make money off of you. I am pretty sure it also does "nebulous stuff" with the data it gets off me - it has my credit card after all, and I am sure it runs all the analytics it can. It will remove me from the stores if they don't like me (with the exception of few law-protected cases). And yet, no one says that the physical world is "already completely overrun by malicious actors", and that somehow "majority of population" does not have the ability to notice that most of the establishments we interact with daily want to make money off me.
  - iansinnott 2y ago
    I think the sentiment you describe has more to do with alignment of interests: Starbucks wants to sell you coffee, free online services on the other hand want to sell access-to-you to some third party. There also aren't the same network effects. No one feels obligated to visit Starbucks even though they dislike it due to all their friends/family only conversing at Starbucks.
    - anal_reactor 2y ago
      > Starbucks wants to sell you coffee, free online services on the other hand want to sell access-to-you to some third party. That's exactly the business model of shopping malls. They create a fun place to hang out at that just happens to have hundreds of shops. > There also aren't the same network effects. No one feels obligated to visit Starbucks even though they dislike it due to all their friends/family only conversing at Starbucks. Most sizeable events have low ticket price but they search your bag for potential food or drinks so that they can sell you their own overpriced ones. You can bring a Kalashnikov but a bottle of water is a big no-no
      - p_l 2y ago
        Don't shopping malls in USA have increasing tendency to have anti-loitering rules against spending time on anything other than shopping, pretty much?
      - shafyy 2y ago
        Who thinks a mall is a fun place to hang out at? People go to malls because it's convenient to have everything you need for shopping at one place, and there's some shitty food for in between. In the US teenagers teenagers hang out at malls, but that's only because cities and communities don't give a shit about building inclusive places for all people to spend time without needing to spend money.
        happymellon 2y ago
        > Who thinks a mall is a fun place to hang out at? Indeed. If malls were fun, why are they all being abandoned and closed down due to a lack of foot traffic?
throwaway290 2y ago
Except digital gardens and small web blogs are scraped just as well. Whatever is findable is acquired for ML training purposes and used against you.

by jvm___ 2y ago

thegrim33 2y ago

It's pretty ironic that every one of their "cozy internet" site examples requires pumping all of your communications through a third-party private business that only exists if it somehow can make money off of you, and which can do whatever nebulous stuff with your data that it wants. Doesn't seem very cozy to me. I believe the mainstream internet is already completely overrun by malicious actors, whether bots or not, and the majority of the population doesn't seem to care or have the ability to notice. I don't see the bulk of the population doing anything to retreat from it. A subset of the population, that includes myself, sure, but "the people", I doubt it.

groby_b 2y ago
Sure, if you want to take a purist stance, we should start by inventing a universe free of third parties, to borrow from Feynman. Meanwhile, the goal of most of these private groups isn't to stick it to the man, or make sure all data is eternally private, but just to talk to each other in a non-public setting. It's OK to use a tool for that you haven't entirely built from scratch. Most humans, your "the people" (really? in quotes? did you want to write sheeple?), care more about getting on with their life than absolutist stances. They notice just fine, and they adjust as much as they feel the need to adjust.
theamk 2y ago
I don't understand why some people hate third-party private businesses so much on the internet. I mean, people often have conversations in coffee shops, such as Starbucks. Starbucks is a third-party private business that only exists if it somehow can make money off of you. I am pretty sure it also does "nebulous stuff" with the data it gets off me - it has my credit card after all, and I am sure it runs all the analytics it can. It will remove me from the stores if they don't like me (with the exception of few law-protected cases). And yet, no one says that the physical world is "already completely overrun by malicious actors", and that somehow "majority of population" does not have the ability to notice that most of the establishments we interact with daily want to make money off me.
- iansinnott 2y ago
  I think the sentiment you describe has more to do with alignment of interests: Starbucks wants to sell you coffee, free online services on the other hand want to sell access-to-you to some third party. There also aren't the same network effects. No one feels obligated to visit Starbucks even though they dislike it due to all their friends/family only conversing at Starbucks.
  - anal_reactor 2y ago
    > Starbucks wants to sell you coffee, free online services on the other hand want to sell access-to-you to some third party. That's exactly the business model of shopping malls. They create a fun place to hang out at that just happens to have hundreds of shops. > There also aren't the same network effects. No one feels obligated to visit Starbucks even though they dislike it due to all their friends/family only conversing at Starbucks. Most sizeable events have low ticket price but they search your bag for potential food or drinks so that they can sell you their own overpriced ones. You can bring a Kalashnikov but a bottle of water is a big no-no
    - p_l 2y ago
      Don't shopping malls in USA have increasing tendency to have anti-loitering rules against spending time on anything other than shopping, pretty much?
    - shafyy 2y ago
      Who thinks a mall is a fun place to hang out at? People go to malls because it's convenient to have everything you need for shopping at one place, and there's some shitty food for in between. In the US teenagers teenagers hang out at malls, but that's only because cities and communities don't give a shit about building inclusive places for all people to spend time without needing to spend money.
      - happymellon 2y ago
        > Who thinks a mall is a fun place to hang out at? Indeed. If malls were fun, why are they all being abandoned and closed down due to a lack of foot traffic?

throwaway290 2y ago

Except digital gardens and small web blogs are scraped just as well. Whatever is findable is acquired for ML training purposes and used against you.