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Yeah, so called "Vision Zero": "The EU’s long-term goal is to move as close as possible to zero fatalities in road transport by 2050" https://cinea.ec.europa.e

Yeah, so called "Vision Zero": "The EU’s long-term goal is to move as close as possible to zero fatalities in road transport by 2050" https://cinea.ec.europa.eu/publications/eu-road-safety-towards-vision-zero_en https://cinea.ec.europa.eu/publications/eu-road-safety-towar...

bitwize 2y ago
It's a good start, but a grander vision would be to reduce or eliminate the need for cars altogether. You can build and sustain a mighty civilization without automobiles at all. Per Poi Dog Pondering: Well the ancient Egyptians and the other Africans The Mayans, the Incas, and all the Polynesians All around the world, a long long time ago People would walk wherever they had to go
- TillE 2y ago
  Europe has generally done a very good job with urban transit. The real problem is that long-distance train trips cost a fortune, typically several times more than a budget airline. And ticketing systems between countries (within the EU) are poorly integrated. Despite many years of hand-wringing about environmental impacts of air travel, almost nothing has been done to address this.
- bmoxb 2y ago
  Agreed. Electric cars are frankly a pretty poor solution to the issue of carbon emissions. A far better, more long term solution already exists - high density, walkable neighbourhoods and high frequency, well run public transport systems.
- davidhbolton 2y ago
  Here in the UK, almost 17% (about nine million people) live outside towns and villages. A trip to the local shop can be several miles on roads that don't have pavements and public transport is of the "one bus a day" type if you are lucky. There are a few people who cycle but they're dedicated and for most it is not an option. Cars are an essential.
  - sarabob 2y ago
    As I understand it, that’s not _strictly_ true. 17% live in “rural” areas, but this includes towns and villages in rural areas. It’s 8% for “rural village and fringe” [0], or much less for actually outside of towns and villages. Unless you have other stats to share? [0] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/661d3b95ac3dae9a53bd3dd3/16_04_2024_-_1_-_Population.pdf#page13 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/661d3b95ac3da...
    - graemep 2y ago
      I have lived in several towns and cities in the UK. The problem is that even in reasonable sized towns not having a car is very limiting. The solution is much better public transport - more frequent is the big thing. That is the difference On the other hand I did not have a car in London (which has very frequent public transport until quite late in the night), nor in Manchester (not as good, but OK) until I had a child. It was no problem. paying for the occasional taxi and hiring cars for trips when needed was a lot cheaper than running a car and more convenient too.
    - chgs 2y ago
      There is no way to provide a public transport service from the village 9 miles away with 4,000 people to my village of 150 at 2145 on a Friday night. It would have to literally be a taxi going out and back to transport one person.
  - haspok 2y ago
    E-bikes to the rescue!
- ffgjgf1 2y ago
  If you’re fine with having the same QoL as the people living in those societies then sure… why would anyone want to though? > People would walk wherever they had to go Or had their slaves carry them in a litter

bitwize 2y ago

It's a good start, but a grander vision would be to reduce or eliminate the need for cars altogether. You can build and sustain a mighty civilization without automobiles at all. Per Poi Dog Pondering: Well the ancient Egyptians and the other Africans The Mayans, the Incas, and all the Polynesians All around the world, a long long time ago People would walk wherever they had to go

TillE 2y ago
Europe has generally done a very good job with urban transit. The real problem is that long-distance train trips cost a fortune, typically several times more than a budget airline. And ticketing systems between countries (within the EU) are poorly integrated. Despite many years of hand-wringing about environmental impacts of air travel, almost nothing has been done to address this.
bmoxb 2y ago
Agreed. Electric cars are frankly a pretty poor solution to the issue of carbon emissions. A far better, more long term solution already exists - high density, walkable neighbourhoods and high frequency, well run public transport systems.
davidhbolton 2y ago
Here in the UK, almost 17% (about nine million people) live outside towns and villages. A trip to the local shop can be several miles on roads that don't have pavements and public transport is of the "one bus a day" type if you are lucky. There are a few people who cycle but they're dedicated and for most it is not an option. Cars are an essential.
- sarabob 2y ago
  As I understand it, that’s not _strictly_ true. 17% live in “rural” areas, but this includes towns and villages in rural areas. It’s 8% for “rural village and fringe” [0], or much less for actually outside of towns and villages. Unless you have other stats to share? [0] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/661d3b95ac3dae9a53bd3dd3/16_04_2024_-_1_-_Population.pdf#page13 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/661d3b95ac3da...
  - graemep 2y ago
    I have lived in several towns and cities in the UK. The problem is that even in reasonable sized towns not having a car is very limiting. The solution is much better public transport - more frequent is the big thing. That is the difference On the other hand I did not have a car in London (which has very frequent public transport until quite late in the night), nor in Manchester (not as good, but OK) until I had a child. It was no problem. paying for the occasional taxi and hiring cars for trips when needed was a lot cheaper than running a car and more convenient too.
  - chgs 2y ago
    There is no way to provide a public transport service from the village 9 miles away with 4,000 people to my village of 150 at 2145 on a Friday night. It would have to literally be a taxi going out and back to transport one person.
- haspok 2y ago
  E-bikes to the rescue!
ffgjgf1 2y ago
If you’re fine with having the same QoL as the people living in those societies then sure… why would anyone want to though? > People would walk wherever they had to go Or had their slaves carry them in a litter