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Water is the problem. You don't see a lot of trees in southwestern cities because we don't have the water to keep them alive.
by jedberg 2y ago
Water is the problem. You don't see a lot of trees in southwestern cities because we don't have the water to keep them alive.
- DoctorDabadedoo 2y agoI would argue that the problem is maintenance. Trees need to be pruned, watered, checked for pests, can get into sewer lines, waterways, etc. To sum up, they require work and one thing that governments hate is extra work.
- estebank 2y agoI would argue that it's not so much that governments dislike extra work but rather that the populace dislikes the additional tax expenditures that accompany it.
- voisin 2y agoYet municipalities never seem upset by all the future maintenance required when they allow new subdivisions with roads, sewer, water infrastructure to support in perpetuity.
- somenameforme 2y agoSomething I've seen in many cities around the world (though never once in the US) is cities that essentially integrate literal forests into their layout. It's not the typical aesthetic or small-park type setting with a few dozen neatly sculpted and organized trees that would shortly give way without constant attention, but literal overgrown and completely self-sustaining forests. The closest I could find with an image search was apparently in Melbourne. [1] Imagine something like that, but somewhat more chaotic and natural. It works really well, but runs contrary to the sort of sterile aesthetic that most Western cities generally aim for. [1] - https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ec/c3/09/ecc309a7ebfb8f2235f194b4e7d4e2c9.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ec/c3/09/ecc309a7ebfb8f2235f1...
- patchorang 2y agoI went to college in Austin, and I feel like they do this decently well.
- bamboozled 2y agoCentral Park New York ? Tokyo Meiji Forrest ?
- joe-collins 2y agoIt's not a forest because that kind of growth isn't native, but San Diego has one of the nation's largest urban parks in Mission Trails Regional Park.
- oooyay 2y agoPortland is kind of like this
- suchire 2y agoSan Francisco has Golden Gate Park, Mt Sutro, Lands End, and the Presidio as forests. I think park maintenance in those places is less to ensure trees thrive and more to keep up trails, remove hazards, etc.
- digital_sawzall 2y agoYet places like Arizona are famous for their lush green lawns and golf courses.
- baseballdork 2y agoGolf courses, yes. Lawns? I grew up in Tucson and rock lawns are standard. I'm sure I've probably seen grass lawns in Southern AZ that weren't turf, but I'm having a hard time remembering one.
- wtallis 2y ago> I'm sure I've probably seen grass lawns in Southern AZ that weren't turf FYI, "turf" doesn't mean fake grass.
- baseballdork 2y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_turf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_turf https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/turf https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/turf
- wtallis 2y agoNot sure what you mean by those links, but they seem to pretty clearly indicate that "turf" does not imply "artificial"; the meaning of the term always includes real grass, so using "grass" and "turf" as if they're mutually exclusive alternatives makes no sense.
- baseballdork 2y agoI mean to imply that you’re straight incorrect on top of being pedantic. The dictionary link provides definition 1b for turf as “an artificial substitute for this (as on a playing field)”. Not only have you added nothing of value to the topic at large, you provided incorrect information. The intent was obvious enough that you felt confident “correcting” me. Thanks for playing.
- the__alchemist 2y agoMendoza handles this by guiding water into the city from nearby mountains. Of course, you have to have suitable nearby mountains to do this... But the city, in a desert, is filled with trees!
- SoftTalker 2y agoSam Kinison had it right in the 1980s. DON'T LIVE IN THE DESERT!!! OOOHHHH!!!!
- resource_waste 2y agoHuh, I've thought it was a really bad idea when I was aged 21. How much more evidence do we need that these are bad ideas? Few things live there, hows that for a reality check? The worst is that much of this is state/nation backed (at least initially), so it's a bit of a drain as well.
- dyauspitr 2y agoWe absolutely need to massively scale solar powered desalination plants in hot places. I realize there are issues around releasing high salt content water back into the ocean but there has to be ways to do that effectively. For instance, heavily dilute the high salt outflow with a lot of ocean water before releasing it back into the ocean.
- hosh 2y agoIn the case of Tuscon, where Brad Landcaster lives, it is the upper Sonoran desert. You go look at the wildlands, and the trees do fine. There are plenty of water to support the life that is there. There are lots of ways to work with that problem and Brad Landcaster pioneered them in Tuscon, including curb cuts. You use eddie basins (and other design patterns), along with native perennials. In the case of Tuscon, those would be the native trees of Sonoran -- palo verde, mesquite, cholla, prickly pear, etc. The curb cuts he pioneered inspired municipal laws, and Tuscon started implementing those and their own basins. The mesa that Tuson sits on top of used to have an aquifer. That's been depleted and the city has been pumping water uphill. It does not have to be this way.
- HeyLaughingBoy 2y ago> Brad Landcaster lives, it is the upper Sonoran desert Hmmm. I wonder if he's related to Don Lancaster, who also lived in the Upper Sonoran Desert. Was mentioned on HN that he passed away last year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Lancaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Lancaster
- citrin_ru 2y agoDrip irrigation and trees adapted to dry climate (eucalyptus?) should not increase region water use significantly.
- knome 2y ago>eucalyptus I don't think spreading poisonous trees across the American southwest is a good plan.
- bloak 2y agoOn the other hand, spreading species of eucalyptus that koalas can eat and also bringing in koalas sounds like an excellent plan!
- hosh 2y agoThere's a fungal infection here in Phoenix that eats eucalyptus. All of the eucalyptus on my street have been infected and died. It's not really about planting a single species, but rather, introducing new ecosystems, so no one species is going to go wild and out of control.
- hosh 2y agoDrip irrigation is not that great for trees that need to develop its root systems (to gather more water, and to survive monsoon winds in the Southwest). If you do drip irrigation for such trees, at the minimum, the drip would need to be expanded as the canopy expands, and/or use deep watering spikes. Better would be a deep mulch basin with intermittent deep watering. In Phoenix (which is mentioned in the article), people have a tendency to use hybrid palo verde, trim the trees so they are more like the idealization of trees rather than the canopy pattern found in the wildland, and then have xeriscaping in a way that doesn't promote root growth. Some people will drip irrigate. The result are trees that blow down easily with the monsoon winds (which occasionally turn to hurricane strength gusts). It's not too hard to get chip drops during monsoon season because of poor stewardship. In the nearby local park, there were a number of trees planted. That's good ... but the placement was not carefully chosen. Some of them will grow to shade the west setting sun along pathways, which is great. But there were other trees that were grown within the canopy of the overstory trees -- they are not going to grow great. They were also planted by digging large holes to fit them, but without any understanding of how rainfall will collect. Turf was added back (grasses compete with trees to fight over whether it turns into grassland or forest), rather than using mulch basins; the only reason they will do ok is because the park services flood irrigates the park. Lastly, the tree species chosen didn't look like they were carefully considered. Mainly, the program looks like it has metrics on the number of trees planted, but there was nothing in the program or policies about tree species selection, planting methods, consideration of sunlight and rainfall patterns.
- bamboozled 2y agoThere was some research posted on here a while back which suggests trees can someone encourage rain.
- browningstreet 2y agoPhoenix uses twice as much water as NYC with half the population. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjQuZfkU1jI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjQuZfkU1jI