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Why have they fought so hard against the Russians if they were "being used as fodder"? Why does Russia get to decide what happens in another country, by using

Why have they fought so hard against the Russians if they were "being used as fodder"? Why does Russia get to decide what happens in another country, by using force and missiles etc? Sounds like you're completely wrong.

cyclecount 2y ago
[flagged]
- throwAGIway 2y ago
  Why was Russia invading Ukraine, creating the need for defense by any means possible?
  - meiraleal 2y ago
    Maybe because in 2014 Ukraine decided that Russia was their biggest enemy and they would fight against them to the death. They were not expecting to die, tho. Reality hits hard.
    - throwAGIway 2y ago
      Nobody decided that Russia is an enemy. Ukraine decided it wants to be in a different club - and Russia has no right to stop them from going. Nobody in Ukraine wanted to attack Russia in any way, but Russia needs Ukraine for its twisted goals. The other club is not an inherent enemy of Russia - it was an ally all up until the 2022 invasion. The friendship even remained through the 2014 invasion, though strained, but did remain in place. Russia could've kept selling natural gas, EU could've been a happy buyer, and Ukraine could've been an EU member - nothing bad for Russia or Russians about that. It's bad for Putin's imperialism though. BTW it's funny to talk about neonazis without mentioning the actual neonazis, Russian nationalists and white supremacists who came to fight in Ukraine in 2014 to support the imperial dreams of Putin.
      - meiraleal 2y ago
        > Nobody decided that Russia is an enemy Yes, the US decided and it was easy to lure thousands of Ukrainians to the Maidan uprising. 10 years ago no Ukranian would think that ditching Russian influence in favor of the West would end so bad, right? Now it is time for them to come to their senses and stop throwing themselves to a meat grind. The dream of beating a nuclear power is too far from reality for them and the earlier the civilians understand that, the better. That's a war they should never ever being convinced they could win. Even if they could win now they already lost so much. It is still time to think if this is enough or if Ukraine wants to gamble their whole existence and continue waging a war they can't win. Btw there was no mention of neonazis yet but it seems like supporting nazis is something that bothers you? It is still time to stop.
        randomopining 2y ago
        So the premise of your argument is that millions of Ukrainians across all swathes of their society have somehow been duped into a political stance, and then a huge war. Do you realize how that makes no sense?
        talldayo 2y ago
        > The dream of beating a nuclear power is too far from reality for them A friendly reminder that the unstoppable nuclear power of the USSR was in-fact toppled by self-imposed economic reform and a lack of control over it's constituent states. So in reality, beating a nuclear power via secession and self-determination isn't just feasible, it's the standard.
        meiraleal 2y ago
        It took what, 50 years for the other unstoppable nuclear power to stop the USSR? I don't think Ukraine has the resources and the manpower to fight Russia for 50 years.
        talldayo 2y ago
        Ukraine doesn't, but NATO does. Even China has been pushing back against Russia's territorial aggression, they have no one to stand up for them on the world stage. How does Russia defeat NATO? Grandstanding and brinkmanship punctuated by long periods of low-tension hostility? The whole world knows the score. Putin had to stage terrorist attacks on his own country to secure a single presidency. Without popular appeal he can only threaten people smaller than him, and even those countries are willing to call Putin's bluff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_lines_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_lines_in_the_Russo-Ukraini...

cyclecount 2y ago

[flagged]

throwAGIway 2y ago
Why was Russia invading Ukraine, creating the need for defense by any means possible?
- meiraleal 2y ago
  Maybe because in 2014 Ukraine decided that Russia was their biggest enemy and they would fight against them to the death. They were not expecting to die, tho. Reality hits hard.
  - throwAGIway 2y ago
    Nobody decided that Russia is an enemy. Ukraine decided it wants to be in a different club - and Russia has no right to stop them from going. Nobody in Ukraine wanted to attack Russia in any way, but Russia needs Ukraine for its twisted goals. The other club is not an inherent enemy of Russia - it was an ally all up until the 2022 invasion. The friendship even remained through the 2014 invasion, though strained, but did remain in place. Russia could've kept selling natural gas, EU could've been a happy buyer, and Ukraine could've been an EU member - nothing bad for Russia or Russians about that. It's bad for Putin's imperialism though. BTW it's funny to talk about neonazis without mentioning the actual neonazis, Russian nationalists and white supremacists who came to fight in Ukraine in 2014 to support the imperial dreams of Putin.
    - meiraleal 2y ago
      > Nobody decided that Russia is an enemy Yes, the US decided and it was easy to lure thousands of Ukrainians to the Maidan uprising. 10 years ago no Ukranian would think that ditching Russian influence in favor of the West would end so bad, right? Now it is time for them to come to their senses and stop throwing themselves to a meat grind. The dream of beating a nuclear power is too far from reality for them and the earlier the civilians understand that, the better. That's a war they should never ever being convinced they could win. Even if they could win now they already lost so much. It is still time to think if this is enough or if Ukraine wants to gamble their whole existence and continue waging a war they can't win. Btw there was no mention of neonazis yet but it seems like supporting nazis is something that bothers you? It is still time to stop.
      - randomopining 2y ago
        So the premise of your argument is that millions of Ukrainians across all swathes of their society have somehow been duped into a political stance, and then a huge war. Do you realize how that makes no sense?
      - talldayo 2y ago
        > The dream of beating a nuclear power is too far from reality for them A friendly reminder that the unstoppable nuclear power of the USSR was in-fact toppled by self-imposed economic reform and a lack of control over it's constituent states. So in reality, beating a nuclear power via secession and self-determination isn't just feasible, it's the standard.
        meiraleal 2y ago
        It took what, 50 years for the other unstoppable nuclear power to stop the USSR? I don't think Ukraine has the resources and the manpower to fight Russia for 50 years.
        talldayo 2y ago
        Ukraine doesn't, but NATO does. Even China has been pushing back against Russia's territorial aggression, they have no one to stand up for them on the world stage. How does Russia defeat NATO? Grandstanding and brinkmanship punctuated by long periods of low-tension hostility? The whole world knows the score. Putin had to stage terrorist attacks on his own country to secure a single presidency. Without popular appeal he can only threaten people smaller than him, and even those countries are willing to call Putin's bluff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_lines_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_lines_in_the_Russo-Ukraini...