5 ms·

The big reason screens matter for electric cars is planning long range trips with stops at a battery charge location. Without the map/screen in-car you can’t in

by jitl 2y ago

The big reason screens matter for electric cars is planning long range trips with stops at a battery charge location. Without the map/screen in-car you can’t integrate battery level with routing. Maybe you’re fine doing this manually, but range anxiety is the big reason consumers who can afford electric don’t buy electric, so it seems self defeating to remove features that help with that. The screens and stuff aren’t that much extra, often it helps save more on tooling/logistics for plastic buttons and dials. Additionally, CarPlay/Android Auto is a hard requirement for me and many other consumers these days. I wouldn’t consider a car - gas or electric - without it. I opted for a Mercedes gas car in part because there was no overall good electric car with wireless CarPlay in my price range.

jacknews 2y ago
That's what your phone or tablet is for. No need for all that custom UI tech in the car, just provide a documented API and open-source app you can run on your phone or even dedicate a tablet for it. Proprietary screens and their supporting computers will be obsolete quickly, will break easily and be exorbitantly expensive to fix/replace, and of course there's a good chance they will also surveil everything you do, mostly for the benefit of the manufacturer. Just say no to smart appliances, especially something as central as your personal transport.
- bluGill 2y ago
  I have no confidence that auto/carplay of today will work with whatever phone I have in 12 years. Car makers want to ship their cars and forget about them. They hate warranty work. Tesla does software updates but the others don't want to (they do but only when they must or if they can charge for them - the maps on my 12 year old car are way out of date because like most car buyers I won't pay to update them). I'm not even sure that phones in 12 years will have communications (usb, bluetooth, wifi) compatible with the infotainment system in today's new cars. I am sure I will not be using today's phone as 5g towers will be shutting down.
  - jacknews 2y ago
    But if it's a documented API with open-source 'reference' app, everyone can make new versions, enhancements, etc. And for sure, assuming a popular standard physical/radio interface is used now, it will still be supported, either through backwards-compatibility in the standard, or with gateway dongles etc, far into the future. I have no confidence you'll be able to get a replacement screen or computer mainboard etc for any car you buy today, in 12 years, and almost certainly not in 20,30, etc.
    - bluGill 2y ago
      Where is carplay documented. Before you answer check the license to be sure you can use it. i agree screens won't exist at any price in 10 years. Hope youre lasts.
  - mikestew 2y ago
    I have a head unit from 2014 that has CarPlay. I have never updated it and it works fine with latest iOS. I don’t see why it can’t do the same for another ten years.
    - bluGill 2y ago
      > I don’t see why it can’t do the same for another ten years. There is no reason it cannot work for 10 years, but also no reason it has to. Computer companies have a bad habit for dropping support for stuff when it is a few years old.
- faeranne 2y ago
  Thing is, we do have that "document API". CAN bus has been a thing for a long time (and is still in use even today), and has documented ways of communicating with everything modern Body Control Units and Engine Control Units do. For everything else, we have the ever valid DIN size standard. Both of these together make for an easy to upgrade system, including options to use Open Source head units. Just looking for a radio and nothing else? Go for it. Want all the fancy bells and whistles that Android Auto or Car Play provides? You got it. Even the steering wheel controls have a standard. So the question is, why do they keep re-designing the head unit as a monolithic brick, and make it non-replaceable? I can't say for sure why, but my guess is that they've since added their own team for "Smart this" and "subscription that", and removing those sources of revenue is far more expensive than rebuilding the head unit each year.
JohnFen 2y ago
> The big reason screens matter for electric cars is planning long range trips with stops at a battery charge location. But that doesn't explain why automakers are moving the regular controls from physical buttons to the touchscreen. That's the part that I consider a serious problem.
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  Buttons are surprisingly expensive; not just the button itself but the wiring and the labor. Let's WAG at $20 per button. $20 * a few dozen buttons is real money.
  - JohnFen 2y ago
    Yes, I understand that it's a cost-savings measure by the automakers, but that's not relevant to me as a car owner. If the added expense is so onerous to the automaker, then they can raise the price of the car to make up for it. I'd buy that, where I won't buy a car that has inferior controls. Why would I, when there is still a plethora of older cars available that better meet my needs?
    - bryanlarsen 2y ago
      Not many would be willing to pay $1000 more for more buttons.
      - tracker1 2y ago
        Compared to how much auto makers inflated car prices the past few years?
        bryanlarsen 2y ago
        The story for 2024 is the falling prices of EV's.
      - JohnFen 2y ago

by jitl 2y ago

jacknews 2y ago

That's what your phone or tablet is for. No need for all that custom UI tech in the car, just provide a documented API and open-source app you can run on your phone or even dedicate a tablet for it. Proprietary screens and their supporting computers will be obsolete quickly, will break easily and be exorbitantly expensive to fix/replace, and of course there's a good chance they will also surveil everything you do, mostly for the benefit of the manufacturer. Just say no to smart appliances, especially something as central as your personal transport.

bluGill 2y ago
I have no confidence that auto/carplay of today will work with whatever phone I have in 12 years. Car makers want to ship their cars and forget about them. They hate warranty work. Tesla does software updates but the others don't want to (they do but only when they must or if they can charge for them - the maps on my 12 year old car are way out of date because like most car buyers I won't pay to update them). I'm not even sure that phones in 12 years will have communications (usb, bluetooth, wifi) compatible with the infotainment system in today's new cars. I am sure I will not be using today's phone as 5g towers will be shutting down.
- jacknews 2y ago
  But if it's a documented API with open-source 'reference' app, everyone can make new versions, enhancements, etc. And for sure, assuming a popular standard physical/radio interface is used now, it will still be supported, either through backwards-compatibility in the standard, or with gateway dongles etc, far into the future. I have no confidence you'll be able to get a replacement screen or computer mainboard etc for any car you buy today, in 12 years, and almost certainly not in 20,30, etc.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    Where is carplay documented. Before you answer check the license to be sure you can use it. i agree screens won't exist at any price in 10 years. Hope youre lasts.
- mikestew 2y ago
  I have a head unit from 2014 that has CarPlay. I have never updated it and it works fine with latest iOS. I don’t see why it can’t do the same for another ten years.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    > I don’t see why it can’t do the same for another ten years. There is no reason it cannot work for 10 years, but also no reason it has to. Computer companies have a bad habit for dropping support for stuff when it is a few years old.
faeranne 2y ago
Thing is, we do have that "document API". CAN bus has been a thing for a long time (and is still in use even today), and has documented ways of communicating with everything modern Body Control Units and Engine Control Units do. For everything else, we have the ever valid DIN size standard. Both of these together make for an easy to upgrade system, including options to use Open Source head units. Just looking for a radio and nothing else? Go for it. Want all the fancy bells and whistles that Android Auto or Car Play provides? You got it. Even the steering wheel controls have a standard. So the question is, why do they keep re-designing the head unit as a monolithic brick, and make it non-replaceable? I can't say for sure why, but my guess is that they've since added their own team for "Smart this" and "subscription that", and removing those sources of revenue is far more expensive than rebuilding the head unit each year.

JohnFen 2y ago

> The big reason screens matter for electric cars is planning long range trips with stops at a battery charge location. But that doesn't explain why automakers are moving the regular controls from physical buttons to the touchscreen. That's the part that I consider a serious problem.

bryanlarsen 2y ago
Buttons are surprisingly expensive; not just the button itself but the wiring and the labor. Let's WAG at $20 per button. $20 * a few dozen buttons is real money.
- JohnFen 2y ago
  Yes, I understand that it's a cost-savings measure by the automakers, but that's not relevant to me as a car owner. If the added expense is so onerous to the automaker, then they can raise the price of the car to make up for it. I'd buy that, where I won't buy a car that has inferior controls. Why would I, when there is still a plethora of older cars available that better meet my needs?
  - bryanlarsen 2y ago
    Not many would be willing to pay $1000 more for more buttons.
    - tracker1 2y ago
      Compared to how much auto makers inflated car prices the past few years?
      - bryanlarsen 2y ago
        The story for 2024 is the falling prices of EV's.
    - JohnFen 2y ago