5 ms·

The cost of nuclear energy is reflected in the electricity bill, not the initial investment. If you look at countries like France or Finland, the cost is very l

by Herz 2y ago

The cost of nuclear energy is reflected in the electricity bill, not the initial investment. If you look at countries like France or Finland, the cost is very low. And in Finland, it's not "old technology." In contrast, German bills, heavily reliant on renewables, are among the highest and most unstable in Europe. > "unsolved problems" Do you mean the intermittency of renewables? > they have/use mostly government run industries. I don't think in French nuclear is mostly used for gov industries. So I dont understand this point. It's amusing how your arguments against nuclear are purely ideological and filled with intellectual dishonesty. I don't understand your connection between nuclear weapons and nuclear energy.

lispm 2y ago
> I don't think in French nuclear is mostly used for gov industries. It is OWNED by the French state. The French government rescued its nuclear industry from bankruptcy. > It's amusing how your arguments against nuclear are purely ideological and filled with intellectual dishonesty. Personal attacks don't support your point of view. I'm out.
- Herz 2y ago
  > It is OWNED by the French state. The French government rescued its nuclear industry from bankruptcy. Okok, your statement wasn't clear to me. Sure, it's definitely true what you say, but what exactly is your point? What are you trying to prove or say with "French nuclear is mostly used for gov industries"?
  - lispm 2y ago
    I said "If you look at the countries which deploy nuclear, they have/use mostly government run industries." The nuclear industry in these countries is mostly owned and fullydirected by the government: electricity providers and companies selling&building nuclear powerplants. Nuclear power is especially strong when central governments direct & pay for the the industry, which is far from a free market. China: authoritarian dictatorship with centrally planned economy. France: government owned. Japan: government directed, TEPCO rescued by the government. Nuclear: big government. Centralized. State-owned monopolies. Renewable energy: lots of energy producers, strong local ownership, distributed industry, distributed grid, markets for energy, ...
    - Herz 2y ago
      I understand your perspective, but it's important to address some misconceptions. Firstly, the notion that the nuclear industry is predominantly government-owned and directed is somewhat outdated. While it's true that historically, many countries relied on state-run entities for nuclear power, the landscape is changing. Countries like the United States have a mix of private and public involvement in their nuclear sectors, with significant contributions from private companies. Secondly, the argument that renewable energy operates within a "free market" is misleading. Renewable energy industries, especially solar and wind, receive substantial government subsidies globally. In 2021 alone, global renewable energy subsidies exceeded $120 billion, highlighting that renewables are not thriving purely on market dynamics. Moreover, the renewable sector is heavily influenced by government policies, incentives, and international competition, particularly from countries like China, which dominates the solar panel market through state-supported enterprises. The claim that renewables foster "local ownership" and "distributed industry" oversimplifies the reality. While small-scale renewable projects do exist, the production of critical components, such as solar panels and wind turbines, is concentrated in the hands of a few major players, often backed by significant government support. This centralization can lead to market distortions and dependencies, similar to those seen in the nuclear sector. Lastly, suggesting that support for nuclear power equates to endorsing "big government" overlooks the complexity of energy policy. Effective energy infrastructure, whether nuclear or renewable, requires substantial investment and regulation to ensure safety, reliability, and sustainability. Both sectors depend on a combination of public and private investment and face significant challenges that require coordinated efforts beyond simplistic free-market solutions. In summary, both nuclear and renewable energy sectors involve significant government intervention and investment. The debate should focus on how best to balance these investments to achieve a sustainable and reliable energy future, rather than framing it as a binary choice between free markets and government control. https://www.statista.com/chart/24687/solar-panel-global-market-shares-by-production-steps/ https://www.statista.com/chart/24687/solar-panel-global-mark... https://www.newsecuritybeat.org/2023/08/china-leads-race-bottom-deep-sea-mining-critical-minerals/ https://www.newsecuritybeat.org/2023/08/china-leads-race-bot...
      - lispm 2y ago

by Herz 2y ago

lispm 2y ago

> I don't think in French nuclear is mostly used for gov industries. It is OWNED by the French state. The French government rescued its nuclear industry from bankruptcy. > It's amusing how your arguments against nuclear are purely ideological and filled with intellectual dishonesty. Personal attacks don't support your point of view. I'm out.

Herz 2y ago
> It is OWNED by the French state. The French government rescued its nuclear industry from bankruptcy. Okok, your statement wasn't clear to me. Sure, it's definitely true what you say, but what exactly is your point? What are you trying to prove or say with "French nuclear is mostly used for gov industries"?
- lispm 2y ago
  I said "If you look at the countries which deploy nuclear, they have/use mostly government run industries." The nuclear industry in these countries is mostly owned and fullydirected by the government: electricity providers and companies selling&building nuclear powerplants. Nuclear power is especially strong when central governments direct & pay for the the industry, which is far from a free market. China: authoritarian dictatorship with centrally planned economy. France: government owned. Japan: government directed, TEPCO rescued by the government. Nuclear: big government. Centralized. State-owned monopolies. Renewable energy: lots of energy producers, strong local ownership, distributed industry, distributed grid, markets for energy, ...
  - Herz 2y ago
    I understand your perspective, but it's important to address some misconceptions. Firstly, the notion that the nuclear industry is predominantly government-owned and directed is somewhat outdated. While it's true that historically, many countries relied on state-run entities for nuclear power, the landscape is changing. Countries like the United States have a mix of private and public involvement in their nuclear sectors, with significant contributions from private companies. Secondly, the argument that renewable energy operates within a "free market" is misleading. Renewable energy industries, especially solar and wind, receive substantial government subsidies globally. In 2021 alone, global renewable energy subsidies exceeded $120 billion, highlighting that renewables are not thriving purely on market dynamics. Moreover, the renewable sector is heavily influenced by government policies, incentives, and international competition, particularly from countries like China, which dominates the solar panel market through state-supported enterprises. The claim that renewables foster "local ownership" and "distributed industry" oversimplifies the reality. While small-scale renewable projects do exist, the production of critical components, such as solar panels and wind turbines, is concentrated in the hands of a few major players, often backed by significant government support. This centralization can lead to market distortions and dependencies, similar to those seen in the nuclear sector. Lastly, suggesting that support for nuclear power equates to endorsing "big government" overlooks the complexity of energy policy. Effective energy infrastructure, whether nuclear or renewable, requires substantial investment and regulation to ensure safety, reliability, and sustainability. Both sectors depend on a combination of public and private investment and face significant challenges that require coordinated efforts beyond simplistic free-market solutions. In summary, both nuclear and renewable energy sectors involve significant government intervention and investment. The debate should focus on how best to balance these investments to achieve a sustainable and reliable energy future, rather than framing it as a binary choice between free markets and government control. https://www.statista.com/chart/24687/solar-panel-global-market-shares-by-production-steps/ https://www.statista.com/chart/24687/solar-panel-global-mark... https://www.newsecuritybeat.org/2023/08/china-leads-race-bottom-deep-sea-mining-critical-minerals/ https://www.newsecuritybeat.org/2023/08/china-leads-race-bot...
    - lispm 2y ago