2 ms·

The thing is, for some games (competitive internet multiplayer), some forms of DRM are a net positive, and arguably strictly necessary. After easily used cheats

The thing is, for some games (competitive internet multiplayer), some forms of DRM are a net positive, and arguably strictly necessary. After easily used cheats started to be widely distributed for CS, the game experience for the typical player went trough the floor, and the community voluntarily and without any kind of financial incentive created and enforced a type of DRM. Steam takes that to the next level -- because they can add fines of real money (losing your account), and actual permanent bans (of credit cards and real identities) as the cost of cheating, the gaming community embraced it and cheers for it. So, we are in a situation where the vast majority of the player base considers DRM not just acceptable, or good, but a strictly necessary part of the product. The things that are commonly considered the evils of DRM (ability to take away ability to use product) are instead considered a primary selling point. How's that for food for thought.

shmerl 14y ago
I think your argument can be rephrased in a way, that multilayer games require third party arbiters (server admins, GMs and so on), who should be able to ban violators of game rules, reconcile conflicts and so on. I fully agree, but I don't see why it should be equated with using DRM for the actual software. And to single player games this issue doesn't apply at all.
- Tuna-Fish 14y ago
  > I think your argument can be rephrased in a way, that multilayer games require third party arbiters (server admins, GMs and so on), who should be able to ban violators of game rules, reconcile conflicts and so on. I fully agree, but I don't see why it should be equated with using DRM for the actual software. GMs do not have the power to that job, unless they have something that's approximately equal to DRM. Catching a subtle cheater is a much, much bigger job than cheating. If someone cheats every day, you'd be lucky to catch him once a month. To actually stop cheating from happening, you need penalties that are high enough to make that once a month count -- so permanent global (so they won't just move on to the next server) bans (and ip bans don't cut it), or failing that, monetary punishment. Tell me how your third party arbiters achieve that without essentially implementing DRM? > And to single player games this issue doesn't apply at all. Except when there is publicly visible scoring/achievements system that you want to keep pure. >90% of new games on the market are either mp or do that.
  - shmerl 14y ago
    I still think using any kind of DRM is an unethical overkill for controlling the MMO..G and the like. Firstly, the game can be designed better avoid (some) exploits. Secondly automated mechanisms can be built on the server side to prevent cheating (monitoring unnatural stats boosting, unrealistic mods and so on). I agree, that it's not easy to do it manually. So, write server side protection code for that. It's not DRM, and not some kind of client targeted kill switch. If the user is caught - ban will follow. Let them register again, and get another ban if they want to waste their time. And if that cheating is so hidden that it's not even unnatural IG - who cares (i.e. it's still not fair, but at least such user doesn't have big impact). From the player perspective, I'd choose a multiplayer game based on the community. Sometimes community can identify cheating just by observing something unnatural, and those users will quickly be boycotted. So GMs are needed to intervene when human decision is necessary. They not necessarily have to detect the issue themselves first.

shmerl 14y ago

I think your argument can be rephrased in a way, that multilayer games require third party arbiters (server admins, GMs and so on), who should be able to ban violators of game rules, reconcile conflicts and so on. I fully agree, but I don't see why it should be equated with using DRM for the actual software. And to single player games this issue doesn't apply at all.

Tuna-Fish 14y ago
> I think your argument can be rephrased in a way, that multilayer games require third party arbiters (server admins, GMs and so on), who should be able to ban violators of game rules, reconcile conflicts and so on. I fully agree, but I don't see why it should be equated with using DRM for the actual software. GMs do not have the power to that job, unless they have something that's approximately equal to DRM. Catching a subtle cheater is a much, much bigger job than cheating. If someone cheats every day, you'd be lucky to catch him once a month. To actually stop cheating from happening, you need penalties that are high enough to make that once a month count -- so permanent global (so they won't just move on to the next server) bans (and ip bans don't cut it), or failing that, monetary punishment. Tell me how your third party arbiters achieve that without essentially implementing DRM? > And to single player games this issue doesn't apply at all. Except when there is publicly visible scoring/achievements system that you want to keep pure. >90% of new games on the market are either mp or do that.
- shmerl 14y ago
  I still think using any kind of DRM is an unethical overkill for controlling the MMO..G and the like. Firstly, the game can be designed better avoid (some) exploits. Secondly automated mechanisms can be built on the server side to prevent cheating (monitoring unnatural stats boosting, unrealistic mods and so on). I agree, that it's not easy to do it manually. So, write server side protection code for that. It's not DRM, and not some kind of client targeted kill switch. If the user is caught - ban will follow. Let them register again, and get another ban if they want to waste their time. And if that cheating is so hidden that it's not even unnatural IG - who cares (i.e. it's still not fair, but at least such user doesn't have big impact). From the player perspective, I'd choose a multiplayer game based on the community. Sometimes community can identify cheating just by observing something unnatural, and those users will quickly be boycotted. So GMs are needed to intervene when human decision is necessary. They not necessarily have to detect the issue themselves first.