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Germany is weird. They talk a lot about green, but sabotage and protest against Tesla factory, because 'reasons'. While being perfectly ok with Coal strip minin

Germany is weird. They talk a lot about green, but sabotage and protest against Tesla factory, because 'reasons'. While being perfectly ok with Coal strip mining. The mine is on the site of the ancient Hambach Forest, which was purchased by RWE in 1978. The company then cut most of the forest down and cleared it to mine. Only 10% of the forest area remains: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hambach_surface_mine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hambach_surface_mine https://www.npr.org/2021/06/28/1010956116/a-coal-mining-monster-is-threatening-to-swallow-a-small-town-in-germany https://www.npr.org/2021/06/28/1010956116/a-coal-mining-mons...

dvh 2y ago
[flagged]
luoc 2y ago
Turns out more than one opinion exist here ;)
- KingOfCoders 2y ago
  Ja die Tage der Gleichschaltung sind glücklicherweise vorbei.
  - KingOfCoders 2y ago
    Gleichschaltungfans hier?
throwaway63467 2y ago
Perfectly ok? The protests against cutting down the Hambach forest were among the fiercest environmental protests in German history, activists camped out in the forest for years and it took hundreds of policemen to resolve that situation, one person died in an accident and the media covered this for many months. And to be frank electric cars don’t solve the climate crisis, right now they’re little more than expensive toys for the affluent, it’s cool to drive around in a Tesla but don’t believe you save the planet doing that.
- ttyyzz 2y ago
  With "Perfectly ok" I think the commenter meant that the German Politics contradicts itself with its decisions, e.g. We want to become “greener” aka climate neutral in the long term and at the same time we are reopening coal-fired power plants because we need the energy in the short term.
- epolanski 2y ago
  > And to be frank electric cars don’t solve the climate crisis If governments were serious about climate change they would invest heavier in public transport, not greener cars (which are only greener to drive, but definitely not manufacture).
  - Ekaros 2y ago
    If there was real seriousness. We would ban all sort of current sized cars and move everyone to slower, smaller and lighter cars... Less material and less energy expenditure in general. Same thing should happen to housing... If anyone was actually serious about whole process.
    - ben_w 2y ago
      People want big things and climate only 'cares' about the emissions, so focus on the energy bill not on the size. To the extent those are the same, the market forces work out the same anyway. To the extent that they are different, focusing on the wrong thing means Goodheart's law will bite, and you'll end up with small dirty vehicles/homes instead of encouraging innovation that would allow big clean vehicles/homes.
      - epolanski 2y ago
        > and climate only 'cares' about the emissions How can size not be an issue behind emissions? Both the energy and materials required to manufacture and transport the car to the dealership are dramatically impacted by size. Between a light compact car and a huge SUV there is a way bigger difference in those costs that just weight would suggest. There's also other factors such as microplastics: most of those on our planet are not coming from plastic straws but tire wear. Bigger cars require bigger tires which will wear more due to weight and higher stress. We just can't pretend that the way we consume does not impact the planet. I'm not against big cars. But they should get taxed more, as in many parts of the world, whereas in US legislation which focused on the ratio between weight and fuel consumption basically made it more efficient to just build bigger trucks.
IsTom 2y ago
> While being perfectly ok with Coal strip mining. There were protests against coal mine expansions as well.
epolanski 2y ago
1) There's 80 million germans, some hold different opinions. 2) The 'reasons' are real, the factory is Grunheide is dumping all their wastewater into the water system, it's literally ending up in people's homes. As you can imagine, Musk thinks he can just wrestle and bend opposition, so they keep denying and refusing to fix the issue and create an appropriate waste system. Tribunals are slow in Germany, that doesn't help. Also, Tesla has required to expand the factory and take down 250 acres of forest, another thing that is disliked. 3) Agree on your coal criticism.
FrancisMoodie 2y ago
AFAIK the protest surrounding the tesla factory were more related to the horrendous work culture that is present at tesla and the amount of pollution that has reportedly been found dumped by tesla factories. 'Because reasons' seem to imply that allowing a tesla plant to be constructed in your country is a resounding net-positive for that country but I think Germany was correct in assessing that the "tesla mindset" isn't completely in line with (West-)European ideals.
Chiron1991 2y ago
Well, 1978 was a long time ago and environmental concerns weren't a big thing back then. RWE had all rights to do what they did, even the Green party acknowledged that when the Hambach Forest situation escalated. About the Tesla factory thing, those protests are mostly done by a handful of environmental activists and - most importantly - NIMBYs from the surrounding area.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
palata 2y ago
> They talk a lot about green, but sabotage and protest against Tesla factory Tesla cars are everything but green.

dvh 2y ago

[flagged]

luoc 2y ago

Turns out more than one opinion exist here ;)

KingOfCoders 2y ago
Ja die Tage der Gleichschaltung sind glücklicherweise vorbei.
- KingOfCoders 2y ago
  Gleichschaltungfans hier?

throwaway63467 2y ago

Perfectly ok? The protests against cutting down the Hambach forest were among the fiercest environmental protests in German history, activists camped out in the forest for years and it took hundreds of policemen to resolve that situation, one person died in an accident and the media covered this for many months. And to be frank electric cars don’t solve the climate crisis, right now they’re little more than expensive toys for the affluent, it’s cool to drive around in a Tesla but don’t believe you save the planet doing that.

ttyyzz 2y ago
With "Perfectly ok" I think the commenter meant that the German Politics contradicts itself with its decisions, e.g. We want to become “greener” aka climate neutral in the long term and at the same time we are reopening coal-fired power plants because we need the energy in the short term.
epolanski 2y ago
> And to be frank electric cars don’t solve the climate crisis If governments were serious about climate change they would invest heavier in public transport, not greener cars (which are only greener to drive, but definitely not manufacture).
- Ekaros 2y ago
  If there was real seriousness. We would ban all sort of current sized cars and move everyone to slower, smaller and lighter cars... Less material and less energy expenditure in general. Same thing should happen to housing... If anyone was actually serious about whole process.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    People want big things and climate only 'cares' about the emissions, so focus on the energy bill not on the size. To the extent those are the same, the market forces work out the same anyway. To the extent that they are different, focusing on the wrong thing means Goodheart's law will bite, and you'll end up with small dirty vehicles/homes instead of encouraging innovation that would allow big clean vehicles/homes.
    - epolanski 2y ago
      > and climate only 'cares' about the emissions How can size not be an issue behind emissions? Both the energy and materials required to manufacture and transport the car to the dealership are dramatically impacted by size. Between a light compact car and a huge SUV there is a way bigger difference in those costs that just weight would suggest. There's also other factors such as microplastics: most of those on our planet are not coming from plastic straws but tire wear. Bigger cars require bigger tires which will wear more due to weight and higher stress. We just can't pretend that the way we consume does not impact the planet. I'm not against big cars. But they should get taxed more, as in many parts of the world, whereas in US legislation which focused on the ratio between weight and fuel consumption basically made it more efficient to just build bigger trucks.

IsTom 2y ago

> While being perfectly ok with Coal strip mining. There were protests against coal mine expansions as well.

epolanski 2y ago

1) There's 80 million germans, some hold different opinions. 2) The 'reasons' are real, the factory is Grunheide is dumping all their wastewater into the water system, it's literally ending up in people's homes. As you can imagine, Musk thinks he can just wrestle and bend opposition, so they keep denying and refusing to fix the issue and create an appropriate waste system. Tribunals are slow in Germany, that doesn't help. Also, Tesla has required to expand the factory and take down 250 acres of forest, another thing that is disliked. 3) Agree on your coal criticism.

FrancisMoodie 2y ago

AFAIK the protest surrounding the tesla factory were more related to the horrendous work culture that is present at tesla and the amount of pollution that has reportedly been found dumped by tesla factories. 'Because reasons' seem to imply that allowing a tesla plant to be constructed in your country is a resounding net-positive for that country but I think Germany was correct in assessing that the "tesla mindset" isn't completely in line with (West-)European ideals.

Chiron1991 2y ago

Well, 1978 was a long time ago and environmental concerns weren't a big thing back then. RWE had all rights to do what they did, even the Green party acknowledged that when the Hambach Forest situation escalated. About the Tesla factory thing, those protests are mostly done by a handful of environmental activists and - most importantly - NIMBYs from the surrounding area.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

palata 2y ago

> They talk a lot about green, but sabotage and protest against Tesla factory Tesla cars are everything but green.