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> 1. “The tendency to engage in sexually coercive behavior likely evolved because it conferred some evolutionary advantages on men who engaged in such behavior.
by delichon 2y ago
> 1. “The tendency to engage in sexually coercive behavior likely evolved because it conferred some evolutionary advantages on men who engaged in such behavior.”
I once tried to have a discussion about whether opposable thumbs were partly successful because they make survivable rape easier. It didn't go well. We never did make it to the merits or demerits of the actual argument.
- pjc50 2y agoI'm not really surprised that got an immediate "what the fuck" from your interlocutor.
- gipp 2y agoYeah, it's not like the utility of opposable thumbs is exactly a mystery
- delichon 2y agoIs the fitness value of grasping tools greater than that of grasping wrists? I don't know. Is either behavior an exaptation of the other? I don't know. Does rape and slavery precede or follow tool use? I don't know. Either way the answers don't seem trivial. We may descend from tool users who also rape and enslave, or rapist slavers who also use tools. Understanding more of that should inform our social engineering.
- ithkuil 2y agoThere is nothing wrong to say WTF and try to persuade the interlocutor that their idea is wrong. You can also argue that some ideas are not only wrong but if believed can lead to antisocial behaviors etc etc. But unfortunately very often people don't have the patience to do this with a civil discussion and instead they cut the discussion short by just painting the interlocutor as somebody who must be a monster to even bring up such a topic in the first place. And I understand why that's the case. Sometimes (often?) that's actually true. Sometimes we're just tired of bullshit flooding and rebuttal asymmetry. But often I just think we're shutting down interesting explorations and we're ill-equipped as a society to have discussions which are truly hypothetical and neutral genuine devil-advocacy. Probably we're so much used to the abuse of those genuine techniques by people who just want to flood the scene with true bullshit.
- snapcaster 2y agoSo you see the main benefit of thumbs is rape? that's honestly insane and I might offer some advice to keep that thought to yourself because you will be judged harshly for it
- delichon 2y agoHow did you get from "partly successful because" to "the main benefit of thumbs"? How did you get from "tried to have a discussion" to "you see the main benefit"? I think those leaps underline how taboo the topic is.
- gipp 2y agoLet's put it this way. Opposable thumbs are such a massive fitness advantage, in so many ways that are obviously massively more impactful, that such a factor, if it even exists, would be utterly negligible. So the only conceivable reasons to raise such a bizarre topic all involve you being a very unpleasant person to converse with -- the most generous I can think of being an unearned sense of intellectual superiority simply by the fact of raising an idea you see as taboo.
- delichon 2y agoIf you don't like discussing weird ideas or ideas that are unpopular or devil's advocacy, you would most probably find it unpleasant to converse with me. If you prefer glibly dismissing such ideas it would probably be mutual.
- snapcaster 2y agoWhat are you hoping to achieve? Convince people thumbs are great rape tools? You act like glib dismissal is inappropriate as if you have some great insight to share. You do sound very unpleasant to talk to so at least you're self aware.
- delichon 2y ago
- gruez 2y ago>opposable thumbs were partly successful because they make survivable rape easier ????