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Movie makers shouldn't own cinemas. Car makers shouldn't own dealerships. Hardware makers of general computing devices (non-appliances) shouldn't make Apps.

Movie makers shouldn't own cinemas. Car makers shouldn't own dealerships. Hardware makers of general computing devices (non-appliances) shouldn't make Apps. This game has played out a few times. Lets see how this one goes.

rahkiin 2y ago
Where is the line? Because what you describe would block any plugin system in any software: AutoCad maker should not make autocad features because there could be third party extensions instead, and they can not make extensions themselves…? Or microsoft can not add nee features to VSCode as it competes with extensions, and they can not make their own extensions because they already on VSCode as a platform?
- Drakim 2y ago
  People shouldn't be dishonest, yet we can't just outlaw lies. But we can outlaw lying in advertisements and product information. It basically comes down to the scale and context. Things don't need to be completely morally black and white for us to see that something is generally bad.
bdowling 2y ago
All of those are common in Japan.
nonrandomstring 2y ago
Yes, these are all good examples of things that actually shouldn't be done, under a certain interpretation of law. They are perfectly reasonable under a certain interpretation of monopoly. It's just that the US definition and that in Europe (and elsewhere) differ quite profoundly. United States anti-trust revolves around the idea of harms. You have to show that Mr Moneybag's empire causes material harm to customers - such as paying more than they could in a more efficient market. The European (and it seems Japanese) take is directed at power. Even if it benefits consumers it's wrong to leverage dominance in one area to obtain power in another.
smugma 2y ago
Re: movie makers owning cinemas, Sony just acquired Alamo Drafthouse yesterday (until 2020, this wasn’t allowed): https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/sony-pictures-acquires-alamo-drafthouse-cinemas-1235920928/ https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/sony-pic...
CamperBob2 2y ago
Car makers shouldn't own dealerships. Not an example I'd use to back up the pro-consumer argument you're making.
- arrosenberg 2y ago
  Being against vertical integration is not an explicitly pro-consumer argument. It's an argument in favor of regulating market power. Consumers may well pay a bit more in some cases, but they will be rewarded with healthier, more resilient markets.
- LordDragonfang 2y ago
  Yeah, the car dealerships are one of the more toxic interests in politics due to their legally-protected niche, and are in general a horrible leach on the economy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_zWFGOSD28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_zWFGOSD28

rahkiin 2y ago

Where is the line? Because what you describe would block any plugin system in any software: AutoCad maker should not make autocad features because there could be third party extensions instead, and they can not make extensions themselves…? Or microsoft can not add nee features to VSCode as it competes with extensions, and they can not make their own extensions because they already on VSCode as a platform?

Drakim 2y ago
People shouldn't be dishonest, yet we can't just outlaw lies. But we can outlaw lying in advertisements and product information. It basically comes down to the scale and context. Things don't need to be completely morally black and white for us to see that something is generally bad.

bdowling 2y ago

All of those are common in Japan.

nonrandomstring 2y ago

Yes, these are all good examples of things that actually shouldn't be done, under a certain interpretation of law. They are perfectly reasonable under a certain interpretation of monopoly. It's just that the US definition and that in Europe (and elsewhere) differ quite profoundly. United States anti-trust revolves around the idea of harms. You have to show that Mr Moneybag's empire causes material harm to customers - such as paying more than they could in a more efficient market. The European (and it seems Japanese) take is directed at power. Even if it benefits consumers it's wrong to leverage dominance in one area to obtain power in another.

smugma 2y ago

Re: movie makers owning cinemas, Sony just acquired Alamo Drafthouse yesterday (until 2020, this wasn’t allowed): https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/sony-pictures-acquires-alamo-drafthouse-cinemas-1235920928/ https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/sony-pic...

CamperBob2 2y ago

Car makers shouldn't own dealerships. Not an example I'd use to back up the pro-consumer argument you're making.

arrosenberg 2y ago
Being against vertical integration is not an explicitly pro-consumer argument. It's an argument in favor of regulating market power. Consumers may well pay a bit more in some cases, but they will be rewarded with healthier, more resilient markets.
LordDragonfang 2y ago
Yeah, the car dealerships are one of the more toxic interests in politics due to their legally-protected niche, and are in general a horrible leach on the economy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_zWFGOSD28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_zWFGOSD28