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The problem with the Linux DE is that unlike Linux itself (which is great of course) it’s volunteer-ware. That can produce great software when the problem is ma

The problem with the Linux DE is that unlike Linux itself (which is great of course) it’s volunteer-ware. That can produce great software when the problem is man-sized (99% of open source is lead by an individual—-usually first author) but for something as massive as a DE you need a team of people, money, and most importantly: one leader responsible for the overall design + UX. With volunteer-ware DEs that’s basically impossible. So what you get is a weird mish mash when it works (it often doesn’t) and really dumb details forgotten about or glossed over as not important to someone who shouldn’t have sway on the committee. I’ll never waste my time again thinking that this can magically come about from volunteers. If a startup puts out a DE with funding I’ll propably be beta tester—-that’s how badly I want a good desktop on Linux.

elaus 2y ago
But this isn't any better on Windows, is it? Even though it's far from volunteer-ware and probably has great UX people working on it, it still has issues with inconsistencies and bad UX. I think there are still at least 3 generations of the control panel buried in current Windows versions...
- digging 2y ago
  Right... Windows development incentives are not aligned with "serving the user effectively" anymore, and haven't been for a long time, making Windows also quite painful at times.
- arresin 2y ago
  You can at least make win 10 into something really nice and useable with a few scripts to remove the garbage (you’re still sending MS a firehose of data I bet).
bachmeier 2y ago
> With volunteer-ware DEs that’s basically impossible. So what you get is a weird mish mash when it works (it often doesn’t) and really dumb details forgotten about or glossed over as not important to someone who shouldn’t have sway on the committee. It would be helpful to give some examples. I use my desktop environment to run my apps. I'm not sure what doesn't work or what really dumb details are forgotten.
haswell 2y ago
I wouldn't argue that Linux on the desktop is the pinnacle of user experience, but it's pretty good these days. I personally run Xfce as I have since the 00's, and over the years it's become rock solid. It's also simple, does the core things I need a DE to do, and that's all I want. I think the current relatively decent state of DE environments speaks to what volunteers can accomplish. Are there better UIs in the market? I'd argue that Apple is doing a better job than anyone here. But the Linux options these days are firmly in the "good enough" category, especially when the alternative is the increasingly user-hostile Windows UI.

elaus 2y ago

But this isn't any better on Windows, is it? Even though it's far from volunteer-ware and probably has great UX people working on it, it still has issues with inconsistencies and bad UX. I think there are still at least 3 generations of the control panel buried in current Windows versions...

digging 2y ago
Right... Windows development incentives are not aligned with "serving the user effectively" anymore, and haven't been for a long time, making Windows also quite painful at times.
arresin 2y ago
You can at least make win 10 into something really nice and useable with a few scripts to remove the garbage (you’re still sending MS a firehose of data I bet).

bachmeier 2y ago

> With volunteer-ware DEs that’s basically impossible. So what you get is a weird mish mash when it works (it often doesn’t) and really dumb details forgotten about or glossed over as not important to someone who shouldn’t have sway on the committee. It would be helpful to give some examples. I use my desktop environment to run my apps. I'm not sure what doesn't work or what really dumb details are forgotten.

haswell 2y ago

I wouldn't argue that Linux on the desktop is the pinnacle of user experience, but it's pretty good these days. I personally run Xfce as I have since the 00's, and over the years it's become rock solid. It's also simple, does the core things I need a DE to do, and that's all I want. I think the current relatively decent state of DE environments speaks to what volunteers can accomplish. Are there better UIs in the market? I'd argue that Apple is doing a better job than anyone here. But the Linux options these days are firmly in the "good enough" category, especially when the alternative is the increasingly user-hostile Windows UI.