3 ms·

True, a few workloads can be time-shifted (like filtering your pool) but the majority of grid load is at least somewhat time-dependent. Some loads are slightly

True, a few workloads can be time-shifted (like filtering your pool) but the majority of grid load is at least somewhat time-dependent. Some loads are slightly time-dependent because you can shift them with minor inconvenience such as pre-cooling your home or refrigerator (using it as a thermal battery) or scheduling when your car charges (using its battery as a battery). Others are entirely time-dependent. Waiting until it's sunny to process an online order, take MRI images, run an assembly line, or use your TV to watch a sporting game incurs substantial additional cost and/or inconvenience.

bee_rider 2y ago
I don’t think we really know what percentage of loads are time-dependent because we mostly don’t have demand response pricing in the US. A hospital probably needs a backup battery (or a guaranteed slice of the grid’s battery capacity). Everything which could be shifted with minor inconvenience—we don’t have any incentive to try and automate that inconvenience away, so who knows? Perhaps we could see a resurgence in more efficient designs, like chest freezers.
- asoneth 2y ago
  > we mostly don’t have demand response pricing in the US What makes you say that? Do you know of a region that does not have DR (demand response) options? Every US utility I am aware of has had DR programs for commercial and industrial customers for many years. Back when I worked in electricity markets a decade ago only a few had DR programs for residential customers but since then many have added residential DR or have started pilots as they upgrade their residential infrastructure. TVP (time-variable pricing) is also very common, though moreso with commercial/industrial customers. I'm honestly not sure how many residential customers have the option to pick a provider with TVP/TOU pricing. Some crazy ISOs (looking at you ERCOT) even allow residential customers to pay rates pegged to RTP (real-time pricing) which is gloriously insane and very Texas. > A hospital probably needs a backup battery (or a guaranteed slice of the grid’s battery capacity). Yes. Hospitals often have special utility contracts and get priority when there are brownouts or blackouts. (One benefit of living next to a hospital is that you'll get power back more quickly after a blackout!) But most hospitals still have backup generators, and special circuits so that they only need to power critical equipment. > we don’t have any incentive to try and automate that inconvenience away, so who knows? Perhaps we could see a resurgence in more efficient designs, like chest freezers. This is already very common with commercial/industrial customers, but hopefully you're right that as residential customers get more exposure to things like dynamic pricing and home solar generation that more of them will alter their behavior and appliances.
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    Yes, I meant in the residential context, sorry I wasn’t clear there.

bee_rider 2y ago

I don’t think we really know what percentage of loads are time-dependent because we mostly don’t have demand response pricing in the US. A hospital probably needs a backup battery (or a guaranteed slice of the grid’s battery capacity). Everything which could be shifted with minor inconvenience—we don’t have any incentive to try and automate that inconvenience away, so who knows? Perhaps we could see a resurgence in more efficient designs, like chest freezers.

asoneth 2y ago
> we mostly don’t have demand response pricing in the US What makes you say that? Do you know of a region that does not have DR (demand response) options? Every US utility I am aware of has had DR programs for commercial and industrial customers for many years. Back when I worked in electricity markets a decade ago only a few had DR programs for residential customers but since then many have added residential DR or have started pilots as they upgrade their residential infrastructure. TVP (time-variable pricing) is also very common, though moreso with commercial/industrial customers. I'm honestly not sure how many residential customers have the option to pick a provider with TVP/TOU pricing. Some crazy ISOs (looking at you ERCOT) even allow residential customers to pay rates pegged to RTP (real-time pricing) which is gloriously insane and very Texas. > A hospital probably needs a backup battery (or a guaranteed slice of the grid’s battery capacity). Yes. Hospitals often have special utility contracts and get priority when there are brownouts or blackouts. (One benefit of living next to a hospital is that you'll get power back more quickly after a blackout!) But most hospitals still have backup generators, and special circuits so that they only need to power critical equipment. > we don’t have any incentive to try and automate that inconvenience away, so who knows? Perhaps we could see a resurgence in more efficient designs, like chest freezers. This is already very common with commercial/industrial customers, but hopefully you're right that as residential customers get more exposure to things like dynamic pricing and home solar generation that more of them will alter their behavior and appliances.
- bee_rider 2y ago
  Yes, I meant in the residential context, sorry I wasn’t clear there.