5 ms·

I'm saying this with no data, but could it be because energy is just cheaper in the States? I have been using considerably less electricity since moving to NYC,

I'm saying this with no data, but could it be because energy is just cheaper in the States? I have been using considerably less electricity since moving to NYC, since the price-per-KWh is about double what my costs were when I lived in Texas. Also, I'd be curious how much of this could be due to electric car usage increasing? This of course is anecdata, but I think a large percentage of it might come down to the fact that UK houses don't seem to run AC nearly as much. I spent two weeks in York a few years ago, during an extremely hot summer, and I was missing my AC very very much.

dgacmu 2y ago
Some quick checking: Average (well, median) US house size: 2000 ft^2 Average UK house size: 68 m^2 = 740 ft^2 That makes for a very, very different HVAC bill. Numbers vary a lot by source but the relationship (2x+ larger in the US) holds. For example: https://www.zigguratrealestate.ph/post/how-big-is-a-house-average-house-size-by-country-2023 https://www.zigguratrealestate.ph/post/how-big-is-a-house-av...
- tombert 2y ago
  Yeah, that does not surprise me. The apartment I stayed at in York was absolutely tiny. It was decent, and big enough for one person, and it was pretty cheap, so I'm not complaining really, but I've never seen an apartment that small in the US. Also there was just no HVAC there to begin with, so I guess even less of an HVAC bill.
  - LadyCailin 2y ago
    That’s ironic, because a lot of the apartments in New York are also very small.
    - leoedin 2y ago
      It's kind of mad that the US houses are an average of 2000 square feet, yet if you watch some of the "New York apartment tour" videos on YouTube they are often far smaller than even what you'd find in London. The kitchens are often absolutely pitiful little spaces, especially considering the multi-thousand-dollar rents.
      - tombert 2y ago
        If you’re in downtown or midtown they’re small. I lived in Washington Heights (north Manhattan) for a few years and my apartment was two bedrooms with a relatively big living area, and I was able to afford that with an academic’s salary. I don’t remember the exact square footage but my wife and I lived there and it didn’t feel cramped at all. I own a house in Brooklyn now and if you count the basement it’s about 1600sqft. Though York is a fairly rural town, and houses/apartments that small in rural America, as far as I am aware, are basically unheard of.
- oersted 2y ago
  From my anecdotal experience, residential HVAC is fairly uncommon in EU. Lived in northern Spain and Netherlands for many years.
  - gregschlom 2y ago
    The H of HVAC stands for Heating. I presume almost all houses in Europe have heating?
    - travem 2y ago
      A lot of heating in the UK is gas (so wouldn't drive electricity consumption) and a lot of homes in the UK do not have AC (recent news reports suggest it is under 5% of the homes have it)
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - oersted 2y ago
      Yes but is the heating in HVAC through temperature controlled air flow like for cooling? Over here it is mostly using radiators with water heated with natural gas (same gas that was used for cooking when fire stoves were common).
      - dghlsakjg 2y ago
        > Yes but is the heating in HVAC through temperature controlled air flow like for cooling? In the US and Canada it is very common to have a furnace that delivers heated air in residential houses.
idiotsecant 2y ago
There's lots of places in the US that don't have natural gas infrastructure and do all heating electrically. The UK has a much higher population density so services like natural gas are more widely available, I'd guess with no evidence to back that up.
- londons_explore 2y ago
  In the UK, places without natural gas almost all use oil for heating instead. A small chunk of buildings built in the 60's use electricity because we thought that would be cheap in a post-nuclear world. We were wrong.
  - idiotsecant 2y ago
    In the US there are lots of places where electricity is fact quite cheap like that. For example, in my county heating with propane doesn't even come close to making sense, due to the excess of cheap hydro power.
- c_o_n_v_e_x 2y ago
  Quite a few people use LPG where nat gas isn’t available. Converting nat gas equipment to LPG is quick and simple.
londons_explore 2y ago
The big differences are: * UK requires appliances to be eco friendly - that means for most appliances they only take a quarter of the energy to do the same job. Dishwasher/washing machine/etc. * UK housing has really high insulation requirements for new builds. Your body heat will keep it warm most of the year. They are starting to require retrofits for old buildings too. * Widespread use of LED lighting and expensive electricity * Smaller houses - less rooms etc. * Tumble driers aren't widespread (big energy user). * Electric water heating is rare (most houses use gas or oil). * Air conditioning isn't widespread, despite the climate kinda needing it in the middle of summer.
- protocolture 2y ago
  A lot of that doesnt apply to old dwellings does it? I recall in my great grandparents old terrace house, the kitchen was set behind the neighbors fireplace. The only rational place for the fridge stand effectively copped 50-80 degrees from the neighbors fire, just radiating from the brick. This lead to the fridge running constantly and having an extremely short lifespan (and sometimes not functioning at all) That said because it was old everything was air dried.
  - Grimblewald 2y ago
    that sounds like it has got to be an outlying situation though, and things like this tend to work on population averages.
    - jfengel 2y ago
      The UK has a ton of old dwellings. Like, a three century old home isn't even a local landmark. It's just a house. They have of course been retrofitted with electricity and plumbing and gas and modern insulation (usually), but exactly what you get depends on how recently it's been renovated. And "mid 20th century" is a very common answer.
    - physicsguy 2y ago
      Not really, the U.K. has some of the oldest housing stock in the world. For e.g. my house is pretty typical, built in 1912, it has a double skin wall of bricks but with no cavity. It has three original fireplaces which are all very draughty. I have timber sash windows, and though I recently got double glazing my neighbours on either side do not have it.

dgacmu 2y ago

Some quick checking: Average (well, median) US house size: 2000 ft^2 Average UK house size: 68 m^2 = 740 ft^2 That makes for a very, very different HVAC bill. Numbers vary a lot by source but the relationship (2x+ larger in the US) holds. For example: https://www.zigguratrealestate.ph/post/how-big-is-a-house-average-house-size-by-country-2023 https://www.zigguratrealestate.ph/post/how-big-is-a-house-av...

tombert 2y ago
Yeah, that does not surprise me. The apartment I stayed at in York was absolutely tiny. It was decent, and big enough for one person, and it was pretty cheap, so I'm not complaining really, but I've never seen an apartment that small in the US. Also there was just no HVAC there to begin with, so I guess even less of an HVAC bill.
- LadyCailin 2y ago
  That’s ironic, because a lot of the apartments in New York are also very small.
  - leoedin 2y ago
    It's kind of mad that the US houses are an average of 2000 square feet, yet if you watch some of the "New York apartment tour" videos on YouTube they are often far smaller than even what you'd find in London. The kitchens are often absolutely pitiful little spaces, especially considering the multi-thousand-dollar rents.
    - tombert 2y ago
      If you’re in downtown or midtown they’re small. I lived in Washington Heights (north Manhattan) for a few years and my apartment was two bedrooms with a relatively big living area, and I was able to afford that with an academic’s salary. I don’t remember the exact square footage but my wife and I lived there and it didn’t feel cramped at all. I own a house in Brooklyn now and if you count the basement it’s about 1600sqft. Though York is a fairly rural town, and houses/apartments that small in rural America, as far as I am aware, are basically unheard of.
oersted 2y ago
From my anecdotal experience, residential HVAC is fairly uncommon in EU. Lived in northern Spain and Netherlands for many years.
- gregschlom 2y ago
  The H of HVAC stands for Heating. I presume almost all houses in Europe have heating?
  - travem 2y ago
    A lot of heating in the UK is gas (so wouldn't drive electricity consumption) and a lot of homes in the UK do not have AC (recent news reports suggest it is under 5% of the homes have it)
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - oersted 2y ago
    Yes but is the heating in HVAC through temperature controlled air flow like for cooling? Over here it is mostly using radiators with water heated with natural gas (same gas that was used for cooking when fire stoves were common).
    - dghlsakjg 2y ago
      > Yes but is the heating in HVAC through temperature controlled air flow like for cooling? In the US and Canada it is very common to have a furnace that delivers heated air in residential houses.

idiotsecant 2y ago

There's lots of places in the US that don't have natural gas infrastructure and do all heating electrically. The UK has a much higher population density so services like natural gas are more widely available, I'd guess with no evidence to back that up.

londons_explore 2y ago
In the UK, places without natural gas almost all use oil for heating instead. A small chunk of buildings built in the 60's use electricity because we thought that would be cheap in a post-nuclear world. We were wrong.
- idiotsecant 2y ago
  In the US there are lots of places where electricity is fact quite cheap like that. For example, in my county heating with propane doesn't even come close to making sense, due to the excess of cheap hydro power.
c_o_n_v_e_x 2y ago
Quite a few people use LPG where nat gas isn’t available. Converting nat gas equipment to LPG is quick and simple.

londons_explore 2y ago

The big differences are: * UK requires appliances to be eco friendly - that means for most appliances they only take a quarter of the energy to do the same job. Dishwasher/washing machine/etc. * UK housing has really high insulation requirements for new builds. Your body heat will keep it warm most of the year. They are starting to require retrofits for old buildings too. * Widespread use of LED lighting and expensive electricity * Smaller houses - less rooms etc. * Tumble driers aren't widespread (big energy user). * Electric water heating is rare (most houses use gas or oil). * Air conditioning isn't widespread, despite the climate kinda needing it in the middle of summer.

protocolture 2y ago
A lot of that doesnt apply to old dwellings does it? I recall in my great grandparents old terrace house, the kitchen was set behind the neighbors fireplace. The only rational place for the fridge stand effectively copped 50-80 degrees from the neighbors fire, just radiating from the brick. This lead to the fridge running constantly and having an extremely short lifespan (and sometimes not functioning at all) That said because it was old everything was air dried.
- Grimblewald 2y ago
  that sounds like it has got to be an outlying situation though, and things like this tend to work on population averages.
  - jfengel 2y ago
    The UK has a ton of old dwellings. Like, a three century old home isn't even a local landmark. It's just a house. They have of course been retrofitted with electricity and plumbing and gas and modern insulation (usually), but exactly what you get depends on how recently it's been renovated. And "mid 20th century" is a very common answer.
  - physicsguy 2y ago
    Not really, the U.K. has some of the oldest housing stock in the world. For e.g. my house is pretty typical, built in 1912, it has a double skin wall of bricks but with no cavity. It has three original fireplaces which are all very draughty. I have timber sash windows, and though I recently got double glazing my neighbours on either side do not have it.