6 ms·

Leaked documents provide a glimpse into Google Search

57 points by tysone 2y ago

tonymet 2y ago
https://archive.is/fia15 https://archive.is/fia15
- neonate 2y ago
  http://web.archive.org/web/20240612182546/https://www.newyorker.com/culture/infinite-scroll/is-google-seo-gaslighting-the-internet http://web.archive.org/web/20240612182546/https://www.newyor...
ctoth 2y ago
Can we just ... not use this word anymore? Taboo Gaslighting? > among S.E.O. experts, this “reinforces an already long-held belief that Google’s public representatives regularly lie, mislead, and omit key information. Yes. This happens. Because the alternative is these "experts" destroy the whole Internet. I would far rather have zero S.E.O. "experts" than zero Google.
- candiddevmike 2y ago
  But have you ever tasted link juice?
- bpm140 2y ago
  Gaslighting has a very specific definition — lying to someone in a way that causes them to question their own reasoning or grasp on reality. For folks who are just finding out they never stood a chance because Google does indeed have a “small site” designation, they probably feel pretty manipulated. I’d rather not have tens of thousands of small business owners wasting their time trying to figure me out how to work within Google’s system when it’s all a tissue of lies.
canary-hill 2y ago
This seems to behind a paywall :(
candiddevmike 2y ago
> One variable that Google Search apparently tracks is when and where users click, not just on Google’s core site but any page that is accessed within Google’s Chrome browser It's wild that a 2 million dollar payment makes such an obscene violation like this disappear.
- chill_throw 2y ago
  Are you referring to some lobbyist payment or some fine that they had to pay as a result of a legal judgment related to this?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - candiddevmike 2y ago
    I don't think it's necessarily a fine? Google picked the number based on assumed monetary damages. https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/07/business/google-doj-antitrust-case-judge-decision/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/07/business/google-doj-antitrust...
    - jsnell 2y ago
      Why do you think that lawsuit has anything to do with the text you quoted? They seem totally unrelated.
Jerry2 2y ago
>In May, we got a glimpse into the inner workings of Google Search, from a leak of twenty-five hundred pages of the company’s internal documentation. The files seem to have been uploaded to GitHub by an unknown party, in March Does anyone have a link to this repo?
- burcs 2y ago
  I can't the repo I think they may have since made it private, however they were released with an Apache 2.0 license so anybody can access/upload them. They seem to be available here now: https://hexdocs.pm/google_api_content_warehouse/0.4.0/api-reference.html https://hexdocs.pm/google_api_content_warehouse/0.4.0/api-re...
xnx 2y ago
The site the article mentions looks like a useful site, but frequently there are other lesser known details (paid placement, link farms, etc.) that are the true cause for a decrease in ranking. Rarely is the story "completely innocent site is punished for doing nothing wrong by big bad Google".
dfee 2y ago
Nah, only gaslighting those still using Google Search. I'd encourage everyone to consider alternatives. I pay for Kagi. But, there are other options, too. Opt-out.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
tunesmith 2y ago
> Some of the information revealed appears to contradict claims that the company has made publicly. One variable that Google Search apparently tracks is when and where users click, not just on Google’s core site but any page that is accessed within Google’s Chrome browser. In the past, Google has repeatedly denied factoring that data into its search algorithm. Fishkin told me that, among S.E.O. experts, this “reinforces an already long-held belief that Google’s public representatives regularly lie, mislead, and omit key information.” This flummoxes me that it's written as some big discovery, because it's widely known and accepted that Chrome reports telemetry that a) is reported back to us in Google Search Console and b) affects search results. Am I misreading this? What's the discovery here?
r721 2y ago
Some previous discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40496967 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40496967 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40498076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40498076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40505310 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40505310 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40510125 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40510125 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40518016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40518016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40525441 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40525441
- dang 2y ago
  Thanks! Macroexpanded: Google Search SEO document leak reveals how company curates internet - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40525441 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40525441 - May 2024 (27 comments) Google confirms the leaked Search documents are real - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40518016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40518016 - May 2024 (75 comments) Google won’t comment on a leak of its search algorithm documentation - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40505310 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40505310 - May 2024 (47 comments) Anonymous Source Shared Leaked Google Search API Documents - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40496967 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40496967 - May 2024 (296 comments)
s1artibartfast 2y ago
I am happy to bash on google, but I also wonder if arbitrarily picking winners and losers is a unavoidable result of an oversaturated responses for limited or underspecified inputs.
BubbleRings 2y ago
All I ask from Google is to stop ignoring quotes in quoted search strings. I get that the first hits are going to be for sites selling hats and ties if I search for: necktie and a panama hat But dammit, if I search for: "necktie and a panama hat" …the first hit should always be for the Bob Dylan song “Black Diamond Bay”. (This is just an example of course.) The site behavior in this respect appears to vary widely even in the same month. It is doing it fairly correctly right now it seems. I bet they turned up the “don’t be so sleazy” dial some in the last few days, since the data dump and articles about it came out.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  Amen. Ignoring quotes is inexcusable. It is a tool for "power users" to find a string. Are they no longer capable of searching for strings do to how they manage their data? Is it too expensive?
__rito__ 2y ago
> One variable that Google Search apparently tracks is when and where users click, not just on Google’s core site but any page that is accessed within Google’s Chrome browser. In the past, Google has repeatedly denied factoring that data into its search algorithm. I suspect as much. And I switched to FF a decade ago.
winddude 2y ago
It seems like google is forcing content towards video. Which I fucking hate for a lot of stuff, because it's much quicker to skim an article, say a review of air purifiers, than get it from a video.
shuntress 2y ago
The question we should actually be paying attention to is this: Why is there no meaningful competition in this space?

57 points by tysone 2y ago

tonymet 2y ago

https://archive.is/fia15 https://archive.is/fia15

neonate 2y ago
http://web.archive.org/web/20240612182546/https://www.newyorker.com/culture/infinite-scroll/is-google-seo-gaslighting-the-internet http://web.archive.org/web/20240612182546/https://www.newyor...

ctoth 2y ago

Can we just ... not use this word anymore? Taboo Gaslighting? > among S.E.O. experts, this “reinforces an already long-held belief that Google’s public representatives regularly lie, mislead, and omit key information. Yes. This happens. Because the alternative is these "experts" destroy the whole Internet. I would far rather have zero S.E.O. "experts" than zero Google.

candiddevmike 2y ago
But have you ever tasted link juice?
bpm140 2y ago
Gaslighting has a very specific definition — lying to someone in a way that causes them to question their own reasoning or grasp on reality. For folks who are just finding out they never stood a chance because Google does indeed have a “small site” designation, they probably feel pretty manipulated. I’d rather not have tens of thousands of small business owners wasting their time trying to figure me out how to work within Google’s system when it’s all a tissue of lies.

canary-hill 2y ago

This seems to behind a paywall :(

candiddevmike 2y ago

> One variable that Google Search apparently tracks is when and where users click, not just on Google’s core site but any page that is accessed within Google’s Chrome browser It's wild that a 2 million dollar payment makes such an obscene violation like this disappear.

chill_throw 2y ago
Are you referring to some lobbyist payment or some fine that they had to pay as a result of a legal judgment related to this?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- candiddevmike 2y ago
  I don't think it's necessarily a fine? Google picked the number based on assumed monetary damages. https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/07/business/google-doj-antitrust-case-judge-decision/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/07/business/google-doj-antitrust...
  - jsnell 2y ago
    Why do you think that lawsuit has anything to do with the text you quoted? They seem totally unrelated.

Jerry2 2y ago

>In May, we got a glimpse into the inner workings of Google Search, from a leak of twenty-five hundred pages of the company’s internal documentation. The files seem to have been uploaded to GitHub by an unknown party, in March Does anyone have a link to this repo?

burcs 2y ago
I can't the repo I think they may have since made it private, however they were released with an Apache 2.0 license so anybody can access/upload them. They seem to be available here now: https://hexdocs.pm/google_api_content_warehouse/0.4.0/api-reference.html https://hexdocs.pm/google_api_content_warehouse/0.4.0/api-re...

xnx 2y ago

The site the article mentions looks like a useful site, but frequently there are other lesser known details (paid placement, link farms, etc.) that are the true cause for a decrease in ranking. Rarely is the story "completely innocent site is punished for doing nothing wrong by big bad Google".

dfee 2y ago

Nah, only gaslighting those still using Google Search. I'd encourage everyone to consider alternatives. I pay for Kagi. But, there are other options, too. Opt-out.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

tunesmith 2y ago

> Some of the information revealed appears to contradict claims that the company has made publicly. One variable that Google Search apparently tracks is when and where users click, not just on Google’s core site but any page that is accessed within Google’s Chrome browser. In the past, Google has repeatedly denied factoring that data into its search algorithm. Fishkin told me that, among S.E.O. experts, this “reinforces an already long-held belief that Google’s public representatives regularly lie, mislead, and omit key information.” This flummoxes me that it's written as some big discovery, because it's widely known and accepted that Chrome reports telemetry that a) is reported back to us in Google Search Console and b) affects search results. Am I misreading this? What's the discovery here?

r721 2y ago

Some previous discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40496967 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40496967 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40498076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40498076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40505310 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40505310 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40510125 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40510125 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40518016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40518016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40525441 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40525441

dang 2y ago
Thanks! Macroexpanded: Google Search SEO document leak reveals how company curates internet - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40525441 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40525441 - May 2024 (27 comments) Google confirms the leaked Search documents are real - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40518016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40518016 - May 2024 (75 comments) Google won’t comment on a leak of its search algorithm documentation - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40505310 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40505310 - May 2024 (47 comments) Anonymous Source Shared Leaked Google Search API Documents - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40496967 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40496967 - May 2024 (296 comments)

s1artibartfast 2y ago

I am happy to bash on google, but I also wonder if arbitrarily picking winners and losers is a unavoidable result of an oversaturated responses for limited or underspecified inputs.

BubbleRings 2y ago

All I ask from Google is to stop ignoring quotes in quoted search strings. I get that the first hits are going to be for sites selling hats and ties if I search for: necktie and a panama hat But dammit, if I search for: "necktie and a panama hat" …the first hit should always be for the Bob Dylan song “Black Diamond Bay”. (This is just an example of course.) The site behavior in this respect appears to vary widely even in the same month. It is doing it fairly correctly right now it seems. I bet they turned up the “don’t be so sleazy” dial some in the last few days, since the data dump and articles about it came out.

s1artibartfast 2y ago
Amen. Ignoring quotes is inexcusable. It is a tool for "power users" to find a string. Are they no longer capable of searching for strings do to how they manage their data? Is it too expensive?

__rito__ 2y ago

> One variable that Google Search apparently tracks is when and where users click, not just on Google’s core site but any page that is accessed within Google’s Chrome browser. In the past, Google has repeatedly denied factoring that data into its search algorithm. I suspect as much. And I switched to FF a decade ago.

winddude 2y ago

It seems like google is forcing content towards video. Which I fucking hate for a lot of stuff, because it's much quicker to skim an article, say a review of air purifiers, than get it from a video.

shuntress 2y ago

The question we should actually be paying attention to is this: Why is there no meaningful competition in this space?