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> Being able to produce state of the art semiconductors is arguably the most important manufacturing ability for a country to have. I don't think that is quite

> Being able to produce state of the art semiconductors is arguably the most important manufacturing ability for a country to have. I don't think that is quite right. It is a very important ability. I don't think it is the "most important" ability. If you have semiconductor fabs but not dry docks to build capital ships you will be in for a world of hurt. If you have semiconductor fabs but not agriculture to feed your people you will be in a world of hurt. If you have semiconductor fabs but not the ability to cast solid-fuelled rocket engines for your missiles you will be in a world of hurt. It is one of the many important abilities. The reason we are talking about it is not because it is the "most important", but because it is at danger of being lost. We don't talk about the other equally very important abilities (like dry docks for giant ships, agriculture to feed the nation, or solid fuel casting, or a myriad of other things) because nobody worries about those going away.

ivalm 2y ago
I am not sure capital ships are as critical now. With drones/hypersonics it seems they are too vulnerable for use in any peer conflict. Pretty sure if China/US were to wage war in 5 years then all the capital ships from both sides in the conflict zone will be scrap within 24 hours. Send 100 hypersonics per ship and one will hit.
- buildbot 2y ago
  The parents point is more that for a functioning state, you need all of those things. If one of those things is at risk externally, bringing that one internal first makes sense. Carriers are still very important to US force projection and hypersonic missiles are really overblown. We also seem to be readily able to take out existing hypersonic ballistics. Also a 5 year war with the US and China that starts with a multiple thousands of missles? That’s just going to be a nuclear exchange and last not very long at all if one sides detects any launch like that.
  - EricE 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - buildbot 2y ago
      Rumble is an Alt-Right cesspool. I'm full of trust for a video with a picture of Biden crying... What is this propaganda trying to support? Increased military budgets? An idea that our military is just as failed and decrepit as Russia's? I searched this, and it's literally a fake video: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/yemen-houthi-attack-disinformation-uss-eisenhower/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/yemen-houthi-attack-disinformat...
- ethbr1 2y ago
  We'll see how the SinkEx on the ex-USS Tawara goes at RimPac 2024. I'd be surprised if they don't use some ASBMs. But larger ships are built to take an incredible amount of punishment. It typically takes a heavyweight torpedo to crack them (hence why ASW is a primary skill set for navies). The physics of getting a 1/4 ton+ non-nuclear warhead (torpedo class) highly maneuvering are rough. And there's a reason the Navy developed and deployed SM-6, and is now adding SEWIP Block III... https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=rimpac+sinkex https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=rimpac+sinkex
  - generic92034 2y ago
    Just recently a major ship was sunk, though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Moskva https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Moskva Did they make mistakes?
    - dylan604 2y ago
      Are you asking if the underfunded Russian military made mistakes in manning a ship, building a ship, designing a ship? Surely, it was meant to be rhetorical
      - bee_rider 2y ago
        Technically, the Russian military didn’t make any mistakes in designing or building that ship since it was inherited from the Soviet Union. Although make the mistake was having it still in operation…
    - ethbr1 2y ago
      Still having a conscript-based navy? Loading their capital ships decks with exposed, extremely large anti-ship missiles? And they likely still would have been able to tow it back to port, if the weather hasn't been bad.
- dylan604 2y ago
  > Send 100 hypersonics per ship and one will hit. What about all of those submerged ships that will lay waste to their opponent with the weapons they carry?
  - ivalm 2y ago
    Sure, subs also have a place. I’m just saying that conventional warfare with high tech weapons favors resource decentralization. Right now things are easier to blow up than defend.
Workaccount2 2y ago
Arguably the most important, not the most important. You can make a strong argument for why it is, is all that I am saying.
mschuster91 2y ago
> If you have semiconductor fabs but not agriculture to feed your people you will be in a world of hurt. The US certainly has that capability - should food supply ever become critical, slaughter cattle, pigs and sheep and redirect the grains used to feed them to the population. The amount of grains would feed 800 million people [1]. [1] https://news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat https://news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-m...

ivalm 2y ago

I am not sure capital ships are as critical now. With drones/hypersonics it seems they are too vulnerable for use in any peer conflict. Pretty sure if China/US were to wage war in 5 years then all the capital ships from both sides in the conflict zone will be scrap within 24 hours. Send 100 hypersonics per ship and one will hit.

buildbot 2y ago
The parents point is more that for a functioning state, you need all of those things. If one of those things is at risk externally, bringing that one internal first makes sense. Carriers are still very important to US force projection and hypersonic missiles are really overblown. We also seem to be readily able to take out existing hypersonic ballistics. Also a 5 year war with the US and China that starts with a multiple thousands of missles? That’s just going to be a nuclear exchange and last not very long at all if one sides detects any launch like that.
- EricE 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - buildbot 2y ago
    Rumble is an Alt-Right cesspool. I'm full of trust for a video with a picture of Biden crying... What is this propaganda trying to support? Increased military budgets? An idea that our military is just as failed and decrepit as Russia's? I searched this, and it's literally a fake video: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/yemen-houthi-attack-disinformation-uss-eisenhower/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/yemen-houthi-attack-disinformat...
ethbr1 2y ago
We'll see how the SinkEx on the ex-USS Tawara goes at RimPac 2024. I'd be surprised if they don't use some ASBMs. But larger ships are built to take an incredible amount of punishment. It typically takes a heavyweight torpedo to crack them (hence why ASW is a primary skill set for navies). The physics of getting a 1/4 ton+ non-nuclear warhead (torpedo class) highly maneuvering are rough. And there's a reason the Navy developed and deployed SM-6, and is now adding SEWIP Block III... https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=rimpac+sinkex https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=rimpac+sinkex
- generic92034 2y ago
  Just recently a major ship was sunk, though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Moskva https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Moskva Did they make mistakes?
  - dylan604 2y ago
    Are you asking if the underfunded Russian military made mistakes in manning a ship, building a ship, designing a ship? Surely, it was meant to be rhetorical
    - bee_rider 2y ago
      Technically, the Russian military didn’t make any mistakes in designing or building that ship since it was inherited from the Soviet Union. Although make the mistake was having it still in operation…
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    Still having a conscript-based navy? Loading their capital ships decks with exposed, extremely large anti-ship missiles? And they likely still would have been able to tow it back to port, if the weather hasn't been bad.
dylan604 2y ago
> Send 100 hypersonics per ship and one will hit. What about all of those submerged ships that will lay waste to their opponent with the weapons they carry?
- ivalm 2y ago
  Sure, subs also have a place. I’m just saying that conventional warfare with high tech weapons favors resource decentralization. Right now things are easier to blow up than defend.

Workaccount2 2y ago

Arguably the most important, not the most important. You can make a strong argument for why it is, is all that I am saying.

mschuster91 2y ago

> If you have semiconductor fabs but not agriculture to feed your people you will be in a world of hurt. The US certainly has that capability - should food supply ever become critical, slaughter cattle, pigs and sheep and redirect the grains used to feed them to the population. The amount of grains would feed 800 million people [1]. [1] https://news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat https://news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-m...