4 ms·

What is the correct text anyway? Everything around you is somewhat wrong. Textbooks (statistically all of them) contain errors, scientific papers sometimes cont

by shmel 2y ago

What is the correct text anyway? Everything around you is somewhat wrong. Textbooks (statistically all of them) contain errors, scientific papers sometimes contain handwavy bullshit and in rare cases even outright falsified data, human experts can be guessing as well and they are wrong every now and then, programs (again pretty much all of them) contain bugs. It is just the reality. Even very simple ones may require you to twist the definition of "correctness". I open a REPL and type "1/3.0*3.0" and get "0.9999999999". Then you have to do mental gymnastics like "actually it is a correct answer because arithmetic in computers is implemented not like you'd expect".

dartos 2y ago
> What is the correct text anyway? Exactly. The fact that language is fuzzy is why LLMs work so well. The issue is that most people expect computers to not make mistakes. When you write a formula in an excel sheet, the computer doesn’t mess up the math. The average non tech person knows that humans make mistakes, but are not used to computers making mistakes. Many people, maybe most, would see an answer generated by a computer program and assume that it’s the correct answer to their question. In pointing out that LLMs are guessing at what text to write (by saying “average”) you convey that idea in a simplified way. Trying to argue that “correct” doesn’t mean anything isn’t really useful. You can replace the word “correct” with “practically correct” and nothing about what I said changes.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  The word you're looking for is "any", not "average". As in, it can write like any human, any way you want it to. Not just as some "average human".
  - dartos 2y ago
    The word “average” implies a use of statistics, which is why I think it’s good to use, even though it’s not precise.
    - TeMPOraL 2y ago
      People aren't as dumb as you seem to imply here; "average" isn't accurate enough. "Random", or even "statistical", would be less confusing.
      - dartos 2y ago
        We can keep bikeshedding, sure. I don’t think people are dumb, just that the vast majority of people dont have knowledge of statistics and AI. “Random” isn’t good either. Obviously the text gpt and other LLMs generate isn’t random. Statistical works too, sure.
- shmel 2y ago
  What do you mean they aren't used to computers making mistakes? Have they ever asked Siri/Alexa something and got useless answers? Have they ever seen ASR or OCR software making mistakes? Have they called semi-automated call centers with prompt "say what you need instead of clicking numbers" only to hear repeated "sorry, I don't understand you" until you scream "connect me to a bloody human"? Have they ever seen a situation when automated border control gates just don't work for whatever reason and there are humans around to sort this out? Have they ever used google translate in last 20 years for anything remotely complicated, like a newspaper article? Have they ever used computers for actual math? Is computer particularly good at solving partial differential equations, for example? Have they ever been in a situation where GPS led them to a closed road or a huge traffic jam? Have they ever played video games where computers sometimes make stupid things? Sure, computers are better at arithmetic humans, but let's be honest, nobody uses chatgpt as a calculator. Last 20 years AI is getting everywhere, we keep laughing that sometimes AI systems make very obvious stupid mistakes. Now we finally have a system that makes subtle mistakes very confidently and suddenly people are like "I thought computers are never wrong". I can't fathom how anyone would expect that.
  - dartos 2y ago
    You seem to be picking out sentences in my responses and arguing them instead of the point I’m trying to illustrate. I don’t really think there’s much left for us to talk about.

by shmel 2y ago

dartos 2y ago

> What is the correct text anyway? Exactly. The fact that language is fuzzy is why LLMs work so well. The issue is that most people expect computers to not make mistakes. When you write a formula in an excel sheet, the computer doesn’t mess up the math. The average non tech person knows that humans make mistakes, but are not used to computers making mistakes. Many people, maybe most, would see an answer generated by a computer program and assume that it’s the correct answer to their question. In pointing out that LLMs are guessing at what text to write (by saying “average”) you convey that idea in a simplified way. Trying to argue that “correct” doesn’t mean anything isn’t really useful. You can replace the word “correct” with “practically correct” and nothing about what I said changes.

TeMPOraL 2y ago
The word you're looking for is "any", not "average". As in, it can write like any human, any way you want it to. Not just as some "average human".
- dartos 2y ago
  The word “average” implies a use of statistics, which is why I think it’s good to use, even though it’s not precise.
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    People aren't as dumb as you seem to imply here; "average" isn't accurate enough. "Random", or even "statistical", would be less confusing.
    - dartos 2y ago
      We can keep bikeshedding, sure. I don’t think people are dumb, just that the vast majority of people dont have knowledge of statistics and AI. “Random” isn’t good either. Obviously the text gpt and other LLMs generate isn’t random. Statistical works too, sure.
shmel 2y ago
What do you mean they aren't used to computers making mistakes? Have they ever asked Siri/Alexa something and got useless answers? Have they ever seen ASR or OCR software making mistakes? Have they called semi-automated call centers with prompt "say what you need instead of clicking numbers" only to hear repeated "sorry, I don't understand you" until you scream "connect me to a bloody human"? Have they ever seen a situation when automated border control gates just don't work for whatever reason and there are humans around to sort this out? Have they ever used google translate in last 20 years for anything remotely complicated, like a newspaper article? Have they ever used computers for actual math? Is computer particularly good at solving partial differential equations, for example? Have they ever been in a situation where GPS led them to a closed road or a huge traffic jam? Have they ever played video games where computers sometimes make stupid things? Sure, computers are better at arithmetic humans, but let's be honest, nobody uses chatgpt as a calculator. Last 20 years AI is getting everywhere, we keep laughing that sometimes AI systems make very obvious stupid mistakes. Now we finally have a system that makes subtle mistakes very confidently and suddenly people are like "I thought computers are never wrong". I can't fathom how anyone would expect that.
- dartos 2y ago
  You seem to be picking out sentences in my responses and arguing them instead of the point I’m trying to illustrate. I don’t really think there’s much left for us to talk about.